Fender SuperSonic

[Yngve]

Your Views on the Fender SuperSonic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqWvw9QmxsQ

[fillmore nyc]

I've tried them. They sound ok, but they sound "new" and a little stiff. Kinda lacking character, IMO.
I gotta say that I now like them even less after seeing Greg Koch doing his piss-poor "bad comedian/ lounge lizard" act. If he was a little less enamored with the sound of his own voice, and a little more interested in PLAYING, maybe his presentation would have come across as more genuine, and less like Fenders product-pushing hired schmuck.
The amp is nothing special. There are Mesa's ( ) that sound the same or better, and thats about the level the SuperSonic is on: Mesa / New Marshall / Crate... ( ), etc.

[Yngve]

Which Mesa?

[fillmore nyc]

Which Mesa?

The Express 5:50, the Lonestar, the Lonestar Special.
I've never owned any of them, but I have tried them all.
Im not a Mesa fan, but any of those three are at least as good as the Supersonic, probably better. The Supersonic 'MIGHT' be more reliable though. I dont have any ownership experience with any of the aforementioned amps, but newer Mesa's are NOT known for reliability. Im also not familiar with newer Fender amps reliability.
(An older Mesa, like a Mark I, or a Mark II are built well, and would kick the shit out of a Supersonic, and are sometimes available fairly cheap too--I've seen them in GC for under a grand).

[jctaudiodesigns]

I have a Supersonic, I like the Bassman and Vibrolux channels, but the distortion channel is not great. I may have to mod it.

[jerrydyer]

sounds killer for eric johnson tones. crank gain turn treble t ozero neck p u

[Yngve]

I have heard that people say this isnt great amp etc.. But how in the hell do the artists get their amp cooking even though it might be a stock Fender Supersonic, heard that Seymour Duncan when he was here used one and it smoked. I think we have to play around with the amp and do a few mods l guess to get our desired tone. There is always going to a be a person who doesnt like it.

How well built is it inside of the SuperSonic?

[fillmore nyc]

I have heard that people say this isnt great amp etc.. But how in the hell do the artists get their amp cooking even though it might be a stock Fender Supersonic

Circuit mods and especially NOS tubes. NOS tubes (assuming they're good tubes) make a big difference. I have a Blockhead 20 watt head, and it came with recent JJ glass. I thought it sounded good until I put some Bugle Boy and Mullard preamp tubes, and a pair of Tungsram EL-84's in it. HUGE difference, but you cant compare a Blockhead to a Supersonic in the first place.
I dont know if I would shell out for NOS glass in a Supersonic unless that amp was available cheap. Tubes like that will cost you some money, and it would seem like money better spent if they went into a different amp.

[_ben]

I own one and i should agree that the burn channel sound really bad.
I have mod the vibrolux channel and the bassman and they sound better now with no difference between them.
Mine has a permanent hiss.
The clean channel are great but they sound a little bit steril. This amp could be a gem if you mod it...i'm sure.
So in 20 years when everybody will have moded his supersonic everybody will say that's it's a killer amp.

[razelfrax]

Ive done extensive mods to my Supersonic. First a 250k heavier audio taper pot so you have some control over the lower volume in the vintage channels . Then taming the icepick in the vibrolux channel , put a Merc mag OT in real presence control on the back toned down the reverb removed a gain stage and basically rewired the burn channel to a real plexi spec with nos mustards . I'm going to try rewiring the fx loop into Larrys parallel version. I also change the speaker from the stock v30 to a WGS v30 clone that sounds much smoother. Sounds pretty good now. Going to put the burn chan master back in and see if It stays sweet and thick. lol

[Tejaus]

I have the combo version of the amp and while I agree it could be better I believe the potential is in there. I've swapped out the stock tubes for some NOS preamp tubes and some JJ6L6GC power tubes, that helped quite a bit and then biased to the recommended 32ma. That might be a little to hot for this amp though.


I've also ran it thru some custom 2x12 cabinets I used to build for Bob Gjika back in the day which help the low end response. As razelfrax mentioned the clean channel volume goes from zero to a ' hundred too fast just like a Hot Rod Deluxe et. al. does. The reverb is the same way, kinda wonder what Fender was thinking with these goofy component choices.

One thing that really makes a huge improvment is putting a Boss GE-7 in the effects loop. It does wonders for the tone using humbuckers on the burn channel.

Razelfrax, would you care to share your mods? I was thinking of doing exactly what you did to yours. Or even trying to voice the Burn channel the same way Rockstah did to his plexies.

I found this mod Pedro Vecino in Spain did to his on this Youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Sd5X_8gF1c

Mod is for clean, burst and phase inverter.
Resistors are standard carbon film.
I d´ont(sic) use polypropylene orange drops in this amp since his response is very modern and does not have relation with original concept. In addition, they would not fit in the PCB. Same with Sozo´s.
90% of the big condensers (10n or more) are the original ones. Only I use two or three polyester film foil RFT (not metallized), polystyrene Siemens for filters and some polyester MKT and tantalum for cathodes.
Regards
Extracting the PCB that contains the pots (unscrew another PCB and withdraw it lightly backward to facilitate the access)
- Change C3 (ceramic 470pf/500V) to 150pf/500V or more
- Change C7 (ceramic 120pf/500) to 68pf/500V
- Change R19 (120K) to 82K
- Change R22 (3M3) to 2M
- Once reinstalled the plate, verify the perfect connection of all cables that go from the PCB to the sockets (They can be forced in the operation)
- Use 5751GE in second socket (second nearest to the input jack)

Is this pot like the one you swapped out the 1M30A for?
http://www.tubesandmore.com

POT - FENDER ORIGINAL, HOT ROD DELUXE, 250K AUDIO
250K Audio, volume drive and bass
R-VHD-250KA

Tube Positions

V1 12AX7WC - V1A is the input stage, V1B is the first gain stage of the drive channel (between gain1 and gain2)
V2 12AX7WC - Used in the Clean channel. V2A is the usual BF-type post tonestack/volume stage. after that, there is the preshaping filter (part of the Vibrolux/Bassman-switching) followed by V2B as a buffer stage
V3 12AX7WC - Used in the Burn channel as second (V3A) and third (V3B) gain stage, followed by the tone stack and master volume
V4 12AX7WC - V4A is a buffer stage after the switching relay between clean and burn. V4B is the effects loop send buffer stage
V5 12AX7WC Effects Loop - V5A is the effects loop return buffer stage, V5B is the reverb mixer stage
V6 12AT7 Phase Inverter -yes
V7 6L6GC Power Section -yes
V8 6L6GC Power Section -yes
V9 12AT7 Reverb -yes, Reverb send stage
V10 12AX7WC - Reverb makeup/buffer

In case anyone wants it here's the schematic for the amp http://www.fender.com/support/amp_schem ... dated).pdf

[razelfrax]

Hi Tejaus Its been about a year and a half since I modded it but basically I replaced the signal caps in the fenderclean channels to mallorys and I used nos mustards in the burn channel.I'm recovering from a bad back episode and the girlfriend says no amp work till I'ts better.lol I think the 250k was a 30a and there are alot of jumpers on the burn channel to wire it with a cathode follower for the tone stack. I think when I can work bent over again I will wire the burn as a jcm800 with 250pf/56k tonestack and either .o47 or .1 output coupling caps so the fender cleans have more depth. I will be more specific in about a week. Burned a few traces learning what sounds good cuz there very weak. When I looked at the reverb circuit on the schematic it was not wired that way in my amp. I changed it so more reverb signal was shunted to ground and only one side of v10 was used for recovery. I would like to change the rev pan to the mid decay time unit. It uses the long decay pan which I find too swampy for an overdriven sound. I changed the power supply b+ to jmp specs.IE bigger caps and dropping resistors.

[yngwie308]

Jeff Beck was using a Supersonic head and cabinet I believe last year........even YJM used one for the infamous Fender Clinic appearance at 2007 NAMM.
yngwie308

[Tejaus]

I can relate to the bad back, I had surgery a few years ago on mine, no fun and it's been acting up again too. Vicadin is your friend.

Anyway, after fiddling arond with this tonestack calculator http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/ I'm going try swapping the treble cap C22 from a 150uf to a a 470-500uf cap.


Let me know how changing V3B from a common cathode to a cathode follower sounds.


BTW, how did you get the nos mustards to fit? Did you mount them on the backside of the PCB?

[razelfrax]

Yes I mounted all my mods on the back side or the side you can see with the board in place. Also I removed Gain1 and used that spot for a mid control for the vintage channels. The amp sounded much thicker and vintage by modding it to plexi specs but just putting in the cathode follower for the tone stack helpedget half way there. The OT from Merc Mags focused the sound more in the guitar range IE sweeter highs and firmer lows. I actually got the first one they sold for the supersonic as I told them that the Prosonic used the same fender pt# ouput t. You have to use 6L6's though cuz the Power Trans doesnt have enuff amperage to supply KT66's or EL34's. Found that one out the hard way.