trainwreck

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:33 pm

http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewt ... sc&start=0

Dan have you built one of these?

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:59 pm

Yes I have. Though it wasnt a real clone since I had one major ingrediant missing because I used the stock trannys from the Fender Bandmaster chassis I built it into. There was also a real bad oscillation I could never get rid of at high volumes when the sound was very overdriven. More overdriven then I ever needed it to be. So it wasnt exactly an accurate clone but I do think I got a very close impression of the amp. Enough to where I knew I wasnt into it enough to build one by itself. At least not before I did my 67 marshall. That had to be over a year ago now. After the Francesca pics came out Im giving it some real though. They have a huge amount of gain for an amp that really looks like a Fender reverb minus the reverb and tremolo. 3 Stage preamp. fixed bias PP output. Very low plate voltages for EL34's. In the 390's. No choke.

If i had to call an express anything Id call it a brown sound in a small package. The story goes, Ken Fischer got hold of EVHs amp and played through it and broke down the tone. I dont know if I buy that because theres nothing resembling a marshall in there accept maybe the tone stack, but I do believe it was Kens take on doing the brown sound. Its more a low wattage approximation but its great in its own right. Very harmonic, very complex, very dynamic and responsive.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:02 pm

Billy Batz wrote:Yes I have. Though it wasnt a real clone since I had one major ingrediant missing because I used the stock trannys from the Fender Bandmaster chassis I built it into. There was also a real bad oscillation I could never get rid of at high volumes when the sound was very overdriven. More overdriven then I ever needed it to be. So it wasnt exactly an accurate clone but I do think I got a very close impression of the amp. Enough to where I knew I wasnt into it enough to build one by itself. At least not before I did my 67 marshall. That had to be over a year ago now. They have a huge amount of gain for an amp that really looks like a Fender reverb minus the reverb and tremolo. 3 Stage preamp. fixed bias PP output. Very low plate voltages for EL34's. In the 390's. No choke.

i thought it was a very singing amp from the video there. seems like one to build down the road - its a singer for sure

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:04 pm

Edit above. I always do that. I have afterthoughts. Ken Fischers one of those tone gurus thats just beyond legendary these days. He stopped makign the amps years ago apparently because of illness. He designed the climax amp apparently and had a hand in the rocket. Andy built one too.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:09 pm

its one to build for sure - i want to build all my favs now

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:13 pm

You should head over to the twreck builder forums. They guy who runs the place, Omar, has visited here and built a metro kit and did a really great job. The only thing Im going to say about twrecks is oscillation is a bitch and their bright as hell. Any attempt to tame them in that regard kills the harmonics which Ken refers to as only 'just stable' or on the brink of stability. Just enough to keep the parasitics under control. A cut control is a very good idea and a 4x12 that gives you a nice thick deep sound.

The file section over there gives you everything you need for an express. Chassis mounting lyout. Wiring layout and schematics of real express amps. Heyboer trannys that they use. The exact PVC caps used (there not orange drops BTW). The right filter caps etc..

Now that my 67 is just about done and those francesca pics have come out my interest in TWrecks is comming back. Without the head cab the cost of raw materials for that build is somewhere in the $400's as well which is nice. Id probably use a hammand chassis.

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:13 pm

You can actually still get the Pacific trasformers that Ken originally used in the Expresses. they also have a guy that is doing the chassis' now.
As far as the trannies are concerned look for a guy named rhinson 's posts. He posted the spec sheet on them. I think he said that both transformers will set you back about $160 or so. The chassis is about $100 give or take a few bucks and they are using the perf board from George.

My take on doing a Express clone is that you want to start off using exact spec componants from the Schematics (Kelly 90 seems to be the real deal one), then start tweaking from there to tame the amp and then tailor it to your liking. From reading that site it seems that Ken was one that liked to see what type of amp the amp he was working on wanted to become.

Seems that hiss is a big problem with the clones. But then there are a couple of guys who own real Wrecks that say the hiss is there. Who knows. I want to build one but starting to think that the lead dress(what seems to be the magic ingredient) will give me too many headaches.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:18 am

Necrovore wrote: I want to build one but starting to think that the lead dress(what seems to be the magic ingredient) will give me too many headaches.

People say that but when I look at the francesca pics the lead dress doesnt seem to be anything special. Just short, direct, and the way ti should be to help with noise. Unless you mean lead dress for the DC in the power supply which I dont know how that could effect anything?

What perf board from George are they using? The red stuff?

Most of the components seem easily available. The caps in the fran pics look like the same Mallory pvc's in my SLO. And the same mallory filter caps that are in my SLO as well. Expensive but not that much considering their only 20u and 40u. If your price for the trannys are correct then the total parts will run not much over $400 if at all over. Not sure about those pots though. Id probably just use the PECs. I think George has all the values.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:58 am

Dan - hook me up with where to find parts, layouts anything on this amp please

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:58 am

Necrovore wrote:You can actually still get the Pacific trasformers that Ken originally used in the Expresses. they also have a guy that is doing the chassis' now.
As far as the trannies are concerned look for a guy named rhinson 's posts. He posted the spec sheet on them. I think he said that both transformers will set you back about $160 or so. The chassis is about $100 give or take a few bucks and they are using the perf board from George.

My take on doing a Express clone is that you want to start off using exact spec componants from the Schematics (Kelly 90 seems to be the real deal one), then start tweaking from there to tame the amp and then tailor it to your liking. From reading that site it seems that Ken was one that liked to see what type of amp the amp he was working on wanted to become.

Seems that hiss is a big problem with the clones. But then there are a couple of guys who own real Wrecks that say the hiss is there. Who knows. I want to build one but starting to think that the lead dress(what seems to be the magic ingredient) will give me too many headaches.

where can i get parts?

Flames1950 · Post by **Flames1950** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:26 am

Mark, you need to head to the TrainWreck forum for pics and layouts. Search there for the parts info you need as well.

http://maximoaudio.com/forum/

I don't know that most of us here have done an accurate enough clone to get you much parts info. Maybe Gnugear, I don't recall if he ordered the correct trannies or not.......

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:52 am

If you go to http://pactran.com/ and get in touch with them according to the guy Nec was talking about they sell individual trannys, the models for the TWreck set cost like $80 and $90, and they are the exact trannys you want. Not sure on the model Check out the twreck page. The Heyboer trannys are even cheaper.

Those Mallory TC filter caps you can get from a few places. I usually go with allied electronics. Most of the small things you can get here. Id probably use sozos if those mallory PVCs are hard to find. I remember trying to find them when the SLO clone thread was going on like 1.5 years ago. Tough to buy in singles and they cost about the same as sozos so buying in tens is a bit much. Its good that theres only 3 values thoguh.

Email me for some helpful files and the layout I did for Chris. Its not complete but the pics of Francesca available at the TWreck site along with the schematics should be all you need. I did the power supply and output section which is the most confusing part lookinh at how francesca is layed out.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:58 am

thanks for the info - right now im trying to figure out which trainwreck the guy is using http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=42150

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:20 am

Its an express. He posts on the twreck page.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:49 pm

Marc, I think that is Orphan Annie in those videos. You have to figure out which is which by the serial "name" that Ken used instead of number. Remember me saying that Ken liked to see what type of amp that the amp wanted to become. This is why he used names for the amps instead of numbers. Each amp had its own voice and no two were exactly the same even though it seems now that the circuit was standardized. Each amp ended up being tweaked a bit here and there to capture its personal voice.

I think Dan is right about using Sozo's though. I have a feeling that using those caps instead of the mallory's would not make the amp as bright. I think... My main thing in wanting to build one is that I do not want to necessarily use it for a lead amp since my thing concentrates on rhythms more. The Trainwreck Expresses from amps that I have heard seem to have the highest natural non over compresed gain(distortion) from a stock amp. There is a video over on the Twreck site where all the video shows is the guys amp as he is pulling masive amounts of godly harmonic feedback through it. That video alone was what prompted me to want to build one.

Marc, when did you transplant to Austin? Where abouts are you at up there? Im an hour south of you in San Antonio. We should go have a couple brews some time and talk shop.