trainwreck

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:05 pm

Anonymous wrote:Marc, I think that is Orphan Annie in those videos. You have to figure out which is which by the serial "name" that Ken used instead of number. Remember me saying that Ken liked to see what type of amp that the amp wanted to become. This is why he used names for the amps instead of numbers. Each amp had its own voice and no two were exactly the same even though it seems now that the circuit was standardized. Each amp ended up being tweaked a bit here and there to capture its personal voice.

I think Dan is right about using Sozo's though. I have a feeling that using those caps instead of the mallory's would not make the amp as bright. I think... My main thing in wanting to build one is that I do not want to necessarily use it for a lead amp since my thing concentrates on rhythms more. The Trainwreck Expresses from amps that I have heard seem to have the highest natural non over compresed gain(distortion) from a stock amp. There is a video over on the Twreck site where all the video shows is the guys amp as he is pulling masive amounts of godly harmonic feedback through it. That video alone was what prompted me to want to build one.

Marc, when did you transplant to Austin? Where abouts are you at up there? Im an hour south of you in San Antonio. We should go have a couple brews some time and talk shop.

i hear ya and yeah i saw the video at plexi palace http://vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?t=42150 - made me want to build one right there - ill try and find out form him what it says on his - transplanted from san fran bay area be 2 years in februaryi have been in south austin( girlfriends will do that to you )
beer and shop talk sounds great!

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:00 pm

Hey Mark I thought you might want to know according to the guy who posted those vids his amp is almost the same a francesca. http://www.maximoaudio.com/forum/viewto ... 79c43be326
This thread talks about the fact that the only 2 known correct schematics are nearly identical and the video guy adds a third so I think the Kelly/francesca layout/schematics are the way to go if your interested in taht amp. The guy who first posted that herasy thing I think Im up his ally. Everyone who builds amps and has ears tweak their circuit. But people make it out as if KF was beyond a guru. A mad scientists who never builds the same amps twice. Im sure tahts true to some degree but this thread makes you think the amps are a bit more 'circuit design' and a bit less 'guru mojo' then people act. Especially with 3 nearly identical amps from different years and with different trannys. How he designed the circuit probably was guru mojo. You seem to be the kinda guy whos totally ready to tweak so I think this may be a project for you

Flames1950 · Post by **Flames1950** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:18 pm

Hey Dan, can I have the Express layout for fun? You know where to find me......

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:44 pm

Some of the schematics you can find here:

https://schematicheavencom.secure.powwe ... xpress.pdf

But I'd also be curious to the layout.

Larry G

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:14 pm

Guys. Go on over to http://maximoaudio.com/forum/ , you can find everything over there in the files section regarding schematics and layouts, as well as images. The Technical discussion section is much like the overall feel of this place in regards to the family type community. Everyone helps eachother over there as well.

gnugear · Post by **gnugear** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:51 pm

Hey Flames, I got the Heyboer transformers that the guy on the TW forum sells. It's supposed to be one of the designs that Ken spec'd out. It was pretty cheap if I remember correctly ... something like $80 for both the output and power.

Dan's layout is awesome. I'm a real dunce when it comes to reading schematics and figuring out the wiring, so the drawing was a big help. I'm going to try to finish up my build this weekend.

As much as I like the TW, I'm not going to make mine exact. If it's too bright I'm going to change it in a heartbeat. I hear the new soZos are thicker than the current ones. They sound perfect for the Wreck.

I'll post some more pics of my progress this weekend. Thanks to Dan for getting my butt in gear!

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:12 pm

gungear use a cut control on your clone. It really helps. Its just a pot in series with a cap accross the output couplers on the bias side. Mostly a 1M pot with usually a .0022 cap but you can experiment a little higher. It will tone down some of the highs.

Who did you buy the heyboers from? $80 for both?

gnugear · Post by **gnugear** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:32 pm

Yeah, I think it was $80 for both. I'm trying to remember the guys name but it slips me. He made a bunch of them for anyone who wanted them ... I'm sure he's got a bunch left.

sweetwilliam · Post by **sweetwilliam** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:43 pm

Hey guys, FWIW, I had the privelege of hearing the first Trainwreck prototype and the first production model, both then owned by a guy named Casper McCloud who teaches guitar at a music store I used to work for. They are both in my top 10 amps ever made that I've heard up close. Wish I had the sense to reverse engineer one of them before he sold them! I remember that the speakers played a HUGE part in the sound of those two amps, more so than I've ever heard with anything else. I can't remember what they were, but I think they're pretty rare.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:03 pm

Billy Batz wrote:Hey Mark I thought you might want to know according to the guy who posted those vids his amp is almost the same a francesca. http://www.maximoaudio.com/forum/viewto ... 79c43be326
This thread talks about the fact that the only 2 known correct schematics are nearly identical and the video guy adds a third so I think the Kelly/francesca layout/schematics are the way to go if your interested in taht amp. The guy who first posted that herasy thing I think Im up his ally. Everyone who builds amps and has ears tweak their circuit. But people make it out as if KF was beyond a guru. A mad scientists who never builds the same amps twice. Im sure tahts true to some degree but this thread makes you think the amps are a bit more 'circuit design' and a bit less 'guru mojo' then people act. Especially with 3 nearly identical amps from different years and with different trannys. How he designed the circuit probably was guru mojo. You seem to be the kinda guy whos totally ready to tweak so I think this may be a project for you

Dan thanks for the hook up. i think after the new year im building a 67 with my alum chassis since i got a steel one from george( yeah im going to make the steel chassis my 12 series and my alum chassis will be a 67... trainwreck is next...

gnugear · Post by **gnugear** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:48 am

No, you must build the Wreck now!

I always feel better if I have a partner in crime.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:54 am

gnugear wrote:No, you must build the Wreck now!

I always feel better if I have a partner in crime.

ok soon

MacGaden · Post by **MacGaden** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:06 pm

Trainwreck layout, courtesy of BB/Dan, and a schematic I found is up at the ususal place:Here

Could some of the techs look at it and see if they are of the same amp, and explain where all the gain comes from. Only three stages before the PI as far as I can tell.
Is it driving the PI very hard ? Does it work as good with 6V6´s ?

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:07 pm

Mac, the little Ive read up on it at the TWreck page it seems theres 3 xpress' amps that have been confirmed and looked at and traced. The schematic you want is labeled Kelly. I have it. Its made from Kelly but I can see from the pics Francesca is nearly identical and the guy who made that video says his amp is the same as well. So I think the kelly schem is what you want.

Those 3 stages push the output section very hard. A marshall preamp only really has 2 gain stages.

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:18 pm

MacGaden wrote:Could some of the techs look at it and see if they are of the same amp, and explain where all the gain comes from. Only three stages before the PI as far as I can tell.
Is it driving the PI very hard ?

It's because between the 2-nd and 3-th stage, and between the 3-th stage and the driver there's no voltage divider, no attenuation of the plates's AC voltage of the preceding stage.

MacGaden wrote:Does it work as good with 6V6´s ?

Even better with the 6V6, because they don't need so much signal voltage than a EL34, means that they earlyer run into saturation.

Larry G

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trainwreck

Trainwreck layout and schematic.

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