Phaser suggestion

[Misterhabit]

Thanks for the kind words and comments. Some good advice here for sure. I will have to try a couple of these out. I was thinking of even testing out the Phase 45. I will not be able to try them all out with the Sunn rig, but should be able to get a good idea a/b 'ing them with the EVH phase 90.

Bickster who modded the Sunn will post a separate thread about the Mods to the Sunn. Quite interesting and I am sure there will be plenty of discussion there.

Thanks. This forum rocks!~

[Lefty Lou]

I know I'm late to the party here but, I own a Effectrode Phaseomatic (vacuum tube phaser) which is an excellent phaser pedal that warrants closer examination. I ran across an interesting video for Van Halen lovers that displays the pedal combinations and order which deliver those classic early VH sounds.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC9B6kOajEI[/youtube]

[Tone Slinger]

Yeah, the Voodoo Labs guy. That is a VERY 'generalistic' approach,in that the more obvious,on the surface, aspects of Ed's old tone are fairly easy to get at. Its the last 5 to 10% of Ed's tone that is the deal breaker. Still, this vid got me interested in that 'Sparkle Drive Mod' pedal. Seems to be a very versatile dirt box that could make most any amp 'useable' in a distorted kind of way. You never know when you might be in a situation where you have your guitar, but no amp. This pedal looks like it could make a very 'general' PA amp sound good enough to get by with.

[garbeaj]

Call me crazy...but I would buy a vintage Phase 90. A real one. Not a reissue. I have one and it has been the perfect Ed Phase 90 sound since day one. I know they are expensive, but with all the people trying this and that reissue and mod there is some serious money floating out there anyway. Save yourself the headache and buy a vintage one.

[Tone Slinger]

I must say Allen, that your vintage Phase 90 does indeed sound amazing .

[garbeaj]

Thanks man...I've actually never heard a real vintage Phase 90 that DIDN'T sound exactly like Ed's. There wasn't any magic to it (the Jose "mods" to boost treble that Ed mentioned I think have been shown to be complete bullshit...it was just Ed throwing Jose a bone).

What everybody is looking for is a regular old, vanilla, run-of-the-mill stock vintage 70s MXR Phase 90. The end.

[YMI5150?]

I've got a whirlwind as well. its very well built and the folks up there are super cool! very easy to contact if you need them. they have roots back to the original MXR engineering.

I've also noticed that the sweep is a bit strong even dialed back and have tried to mellow it out. I've found that it can be mellowed behind an EP-3.

I also reached out to them asking if they have any experience mellowing it out and here's their reply:

"The original Phase-90s used ceramic capacitors which we changed to polyester caps in the Orange Box. Losses due to dissipation factor of the older style ceramic caps may have contributed to the more subtle effect but these losses also varied depending on the run of caps we used at any one time. So the units were inconsistent . . . some subtle, some thicker. Going to polyester caps in the current Orange Box allows Whirlwind to make the most consistent version of the original design.

There is a way to degrade the mix where the all pass filters are mixed with the dry signal. This happens to occur through a 150K resistor that is "flown" across the board. Adding more resistance in series there will degrade the mix and produce a more subtle effect. The problem is guessing how much resistance to add to suit your particular taste.

You could perhaps put a small 200K trim pot in series with the flown resistor and adjust it to taste. Or try different fixed resistor values but at the risk of the PCB getting hacked up which wouldn't be covered under warranty.

Another thing to remember that may be obvious, is that when listening to the effect with just a guitar and amp and no other instruments playing, the effect will be more intense sounding than in the context of playing with a band. When bass, drums ands vocal are added, the phasing on the guitar takes on less significance."

[Lefty Lou]

Yeah, the Voodoo Labs guy. That is a VERY 'generalistic' approach,in that the more obvious,on the surface, aspects of Ed's old tone are fairly easy to get at. Its the last 5 to 10% of Ed's tone that is the deal breaker. Still, this vid got me interested in that 'Sparkle Drive Mod' pedal. Seems to be a very versatile dirt box that could make most any amp 'useable' in a distorted kind of way. You never know when you might be in a situation where you have your guitar, but no amp. This pedal looks like it could make a very 'general' PA amp sound good enough to get by with.

The Keeley modded Sparkle Drive pedal is what I own, and it has that clear, unveiled, perfect (amount/type) of gain onhand. I also have the Keeley Boss Blues Driver BD-2 pedal which I use quite extensively. These two pedals are must haves for most of the classic rock I do, so that my other OD's like the Boogie V Twin, Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet, and Fulltone RTO typically go unused.

I'd say barring the Heavy Metal sound, with these two pedals or a combination thereof, one can cover most classic rock tones. FWIW the only pedal I would ever use in a "P.A." situation is a "Foundation Pedal" like what is made by Catalinbread either that, or something like a Boogie V-Twin. If you're trying to get a tube amp sound through the P.A. then your best results are obtained this way.

A "foundation pedal" is basically taking the tone stack and gain section of a popular amp and placing it into a pedal format. The way Catalinbread describes it is that, your pedal becomes the amp model preamp (say a Marshall Super Lead), and the amp you plug into becomes the power amp. Because of this simple explanation, one is able to place (reverb, echo, delay, etc.) after the "foundation pedal" and before the amp to simulate an effects loop. There are plenty of pedal manufacturers that make (amp-in-a-box) pedals, but not all are totally "believable". Lately I've been looking at the Catalinbread DLS, Xotic SL Drive, Wampler Plexi Drive, and Carl Martin Plexi Tone.

To my ears the Carl Martin Plexitone is too hi gain Marshall, but the Wampler Plexi Drive and Catalinbread DLS come the closest to the Marshall tones that I'm familiar with. Although the Catalinbread DLS and Xotic SL Drive have very believable Super Lead and Super Bass tones.

[garbeaj]

All that said...buy a vintage Phase 90. They really aren't that expensive.

[Lefty Lou]

All that said...buy a vintage Phase 90. They really aren't that expensive.

For the price that some vintage Phase 90's are going for:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... &_from=R40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You could have one of these:



Plus you have a helluva lot more control than just one knob.

[garbeaj]

But who would want one of these or any other expensive boutique pedal when you could have THE sound that everyone is trying to clone if you buy a vintage Phase 90?!?!

If you want something that is similar to a Phase 90 but with more knobs...be like Keith Richard and Ronnie Wood on Some Girls and get a Phase 100.

[Tone Slinger]

Thanks for the cool pedal info Lefty Lou, I really need to diversify my set up/s a bit more, having a solid way to get the sound I need,in most any scenario.

[Lefty Lou]

But who would want one of these or any other expensive boutique pedal when you could have THE sound that everyone is trying to clone if you buy a vintage Phase 90?!?!

If you want something that is similar to a Phase 90 but with more knobs...be like Keith Richard and Ronnie Wood on Some Girls and get a Phase 100.

Now that there's funny, a $300 to $400 old vintage Phase 90 pedal which most people would call expensive (and boutique like) and just for the privilege of saying I own an "actual vintage" Phase 90, and it only cost me $400. I'd rather have true diversity of sound as in multiple phase tones and not just "one great phase tone". The Phase 90 will become trite very quickly, similar to the 80's when many guitarists were overusing chorus pedals.

[JimiJames]

..."The original Phase-90s used ceramic capacitors which we changed to polyester caps in the Orange Box. Losses due to dissipation factor of the older style ceramic caps may have contributed to the more subtle effect but these losses also varied depending on the run of caps we used at any one time. So the units were inconsistent . . . some subtle, some thicker. Going to polyester caps in the current Orange Box allows Whirlwind to make the most consistent version of the original design.

There is a way to degrade the mix where the all pass filters are mixed with the dry signal. This happens to occur through a 150K resistor that is "flown" across the board. Adding more resistance in series there will degrade the mix and produce a more subtle effect. The problem is guessing how much resistance to add to suit your particular taste.

You could perhaps put a small 200K trim pot in series with the flown resistor and adjust it to taste. Or try different fixed resistor values but at the risk of the PCB getting hacked up which wouldn't be covered under warranty.

Another thing to remember that may be obvious, is that when listening to the effect with just a guitar and amp and no other instruments playing, the effect will be more intense sounding than in the context of playing with a band. When bass, drums ands vocal are added, the phasing on the guitar takes on less significance..."

Excellent info !
The only otherway I knew of, to thin out the phase signal and make it less thick, was to run a voltage attenuator (deVolt, Dan Electrode or a VooDoo Lab PP2+) between the pedal and dialing in less volts.
... or... use a Phase 45.

Thanks for the R&D YMI5150? !

[garbeaj]

..."The original Phase-90s used ceramic capacitors which we changed to polyester caps in the Orange Box. Losses due to dissipation factor of the older style ceramic caps may have contributed to the more subtle effect but these losses also varied depending on the run of caps we used at any one time. So the units were inconsistent . . . some subtle, some thicker. Going to polyester caps in the current Orange Box allows Whirlwind to make the most consistent version of the original design.

There is a way to degrade the mix where the all pass filters are mixed with the dry signal. This happens to occur through a 150K resistor that is "flown" across the board. Adding more resistance in series there will degrade the mix and produce a more subtle effect. The problem is guessing how much resistance to add to suit your particular taste.

You could perhaps put a small 200K trim pot in series with the flown resistor and adjust it to taste. Or try different fixed resistor values but at the risk of the PCB getting hacked up which wouldn't be covered under warranty.

Another thing to remember that may be obvious, is that when listening to the effect with just a guitar and amp and no other instruments playing, the effect will be more intense sounding than in the context of playing with a band. When bass, drums ands vocal are added, the phasing on the guitar takes on less significance..."

Excellent info !
The only otherway I knew of, to thin out the phase signal and make it less thick, was to run a voltage attenuator (deVolt, Dan Electrode or a VooDoo Lab PP2+) between the pedal and dialing in less volts.
... or... use a Phase 45.

Thanks for the R&D YMI5150? !

Or you could just buy a vintage Phase 90