The Definitive Bluesbreaker Speaker Thread...

This is what it sounds like, when cones cry.

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908ssp
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Post by 908ssp » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:22 pm

Were those 25 watt or 15watt? Those 40th anniversary alnicos are they selling them separate? They need to sell some as replacements but some companies ask for a serial number for limited production stuff. I haven't heard those yet. They might be great but I bet they aren't cheap. :roll:

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Post by Roe » Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:07 am

908ssp wrote:Were those 25 watt or 15watt? Those 40th anniversary alnicos are they selling them separate? They need to sell some as replacements but some companies ask for a serial number for limited production stuff. I haven't heard those yet. They might be great but I bet they aren't cheap. :roll:
those were 25w - much darker and not as loud as the 15w RI. to get them, you'll have to buy the 40th anniv stack :roll:

I've heard them and I'm happy with my undoped 30w alnico silver bell
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Post by Brad737 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:48 am

Which Tone Tubbies are you referring to?
Thanks,
Brad

908ssp wrote:I tried both Weber's the Blue Dog and the Silver bell. They weren't bad but they didn't compare well with my Blues, TT or Vintage 003 Silver bell. They were dull and flat sounding they had neither the chime of the Blue nor the warmth and smoothness of the TT. I kinda wish I still had them just for the sake of comparison. I hung on to them for a long time but I never used them much, there always seemed to be better cab to plug into for my amp at the moment. This whole thing is very much like ice cream sometimes the taste is so good you're willing to pay a little more sometimes you're so hungry you can afford to do with less taste. :wink:
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Post by 908ssp » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:22 am

Brad737 wrote:Which Tone Tubbies are you referring to?
Tone Tubby hemp cone alnicos H1, H1E, & H1DD. :wink:

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Post by Brad737 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:21 pm

I've never heard Tone Tubby speakers before, but I've heard good things about them. I wonder how authentic they'd sound with a Bluesbreaker?
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Post by 908ssp » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:29 pm

Well I got that Scumnico and it is a spot on replica of my original 1967 Celestion Silver alnico. And I mean a perfect match and it surprised the hell out of me. I put the Scumnico in a 2x12 open back cab about the same volume as my BB cab. I wire only the Scumnico to the speaker jack and then wired everything to my a/b switch for speaker testing. If the speakers weren't next each other and I couldn't hear where the sound was coming from I wouldn't have been able to tell them apart. On top of that they are a great sounding speaker. I love the way my originals sound with the JTM I can't imagine any better match up. It was all there the same bottom the same mids the same crunch a really impressive clone. As clones go I was dumb founded how close they were. One last thing originals are rare and cost a lot of money 2.5 to 3 times as much as a Scumnico so the price advantage is obvious.

Now that said they don't sound like Blues or Tone Tubbys. Depending on what you're looking for one of those might better suit your purpose, I find that neither of those sound particularly good with Marshalls. I am thinking I need a 4x12 of Scumnicos to go with my JTM50 Super PA. :?

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Post by Brad737 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:30 pm

Hey Alex,
That's cool that you like the new speakers. I'm not sure exactly which speakers I'm going to go with next. I've kind of gotten sidetracked with a Trainwreck build. I'm still not exactly sure which speakers Marshall used. Last I looked, the Scumnicos were something like $55 more expensive per speaker than the Weber Alnicos. Too bad Clapton hasn't told us what to use. :-p

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Post by Scumback Speakers » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:00 pm

Brad737 wrote:Hey Alex,
That's cool that you like the new speakers. I'm not sure exactly which speakers I'm going to go with next. I've kind of gotten sidetracked with a Trainwreck build. I'm still not exactly sure which speakers Marshall used. Last I looked, the Scumnicos were something like $55 more expensive per speaker than the Weber Alnicos. Too bad Clapton hasn't told us what to use. :-p

Thanks,
Brad
There's a reason my speakers are more money than the Weber Alnicos, mainly the more tedious build time, aging, etc. and that it's not a straight plane Jane Alnico, since it has a neodymium tip to improve efficiency, low end and retain the high end associated with the Alnico Silver.

These speakers won't be as bright as standard Cele Blues or Weber Alnicos, which are patterned after the Cele Blue or the Jensen Alnico models.

The Scumnico uses the largest Alnico magnet available, 40 oz., then adds on the neodymium magnet tip, and the H75 Scumback cone. Consequently the speaker cost me almost twice as much as a ceramic Scumback, so that's why it's more $$$.

I'm not apologizing to you, mind you, I'm just explaining why the cost is higher. Like everything I do, tone is paramount, cost is secondary to the tone.

Since I don't have huge ad campaigns and investors to repay, I can operate at a lower profit margin, but the first and most important thing is the tone. So far I've received only six clients who got their speakers and have reported back.

Overall, though, they are extremely happy and ready to sell their Celestions and in some cases, some of their other Scumbacks in favor of the Scumnico.

Now that surprised me. So the new speaker must be fairly impressive to them. :)

Hell, I'm not an Alnico fan and I liked them, so that's saying a lot, even if I say it myself. I'm also the guy who doesn't like G12M Pre Rolas, but when I heard my M75's for the first time, I knew the recipe was right because (and I've posted this online several times) "I hated the M75's as much as my G12M Pre Rolas..."

That's about as honest as it can get, I think. You certainly can't say that when you have investors, public relations people and salespeople's commissions at stake.
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Post by Brad737 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:21 pm

I wonder how one Blue, and one TT would sound together?[


quote="908ssp"]I tried both Weber's the Blue Dog and the Silver bell. They weren't bad but they didn't compare well with my Blues, TT or Vintage 003 Silver bell. They were dull and flat sounding they had neither the chime of the Blue nor the warmth and smoothness of the TT. I kinda wish I still had them just for the sake of comparison. I hung on to them for a long time but I never used them much, there always seemed to be better cab to plug into for my amp at the moment. This whole thing is very much like ice cream sometimes the taste is so good you're willing to pay a little more sometimes you're so hungry you can afford to do with less taste. :wink:[/quote]
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Post by Brad737 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:23 pm

Oh yeah, one more thing...Are we all in agreement that a Bluesbreaker combo should be two 16-ohm alnico speakers?
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Post by Scumback Speakers » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:04 pm

Brad737 wrote:Oh yeah, one more thing...Are we all in agreement that a Bluesbreaker combo should be two 16-ohm alnico speakers?
Thanks,
Brad
I dunno, that may have been the case back in 65/66. I'm going to wire up a 2x12 extension cab with two 8 ohm Scumnicos tomorrow and see how that sounds.
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Post by Jeff West » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:54 pm

Brad- The few KT66 Bluesbreakers I've seen from 1965-66 over the years including one Park version were all like that, i.e., two 16 ohm speakers in parallel, inc one with orig alnico G12s and the rest w/G12M20s.

Of the alnicos: All the T530s I've seen w/orig cones had H1777. Like Jim said, T1088s from 1964 had H1777, but in mid/late '65 102 003 started appearing.

However, Marshall didn't use T530s, which were just for VOX, or T1088s or T1656 alnicos, they generally used T652 15 ohm alnicos for G12. T652 at least started out identical to T530, except for color, no bell cover, label, and 15 ohm VC instead of 8.

And T731 was identical to T652 except for color, usually found in Selmers.

I don't recall if I've seen original cone in '65 T652 from a Marshall, as opposed to '64 which definitely had H1777, but maybe someone reading this has some.

I did recall that Don Butler has a pair of T731s w/same date codes from 6/65, and he was good enough to confirm the original cone codes: H1777 in one and 102 003 in the other!

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Post by 908ssp » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:25 pm

Mine don't have any T numbers at least none that I can find. My speakers are 8 ohm and I am running them in series but my amp is set a 8 ohms because my Richter attenuator is 8 ohms and it is responsible for the majority of the load on the amp. The date code is clearly marked on the paper gasket and the cone codes are plain to see. They do have the JMI Vox label and the magnet cover they came out of a Vox extension cab.

Larry says "Ok, the concrete description of the speakers is Celestion Alnico Silver T.652

The type of speaker, Eric Clapton had mounted in his Bluesbreaker Amp, used on the Beano Album. " I assume he got this info from Udo Pipper aka PepperN. [see http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... .jpg[/img]

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Post by 908ssp » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:40 pm

Brad737 wrote:I wonder how one Blue, and one TT would sound together?
Well I tried that a long time ago and the Blue is just too loud. It drowns out the warmth and smoothness of the TT. The bottom because of the TT is a little better but you can still hear the looseness of the Blue. My Trainwreck Rocket has a terrific tight bottom end and it seems to work really well with the reissue Blue which if I am not mistaken I was told was the speaker that Ken designed it to work with. I once put three old greenbacks in a 4x12 and one blue reissue and it just dominated the entire cab I swapped it out for a TT and that was a much better sound I still have that cab.

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Post by Brad737 » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:48 pm

God, I'm glad I found this board. It seems like you've put all my goofy ideas to the test already. So if you were starting from scratch Alex, what would you put in a Bluesbreaker? Two of the 16 ohm Scumnicos?
Thanks,
Brad
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