G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

This is what it sounds like, when cones cry.

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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by Scumback Speakers » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:33 am

jape88 wrote:Maybe I misunderstood what George's aim was here, but I thought this was to capture how each quad of speakers sounded 'IN THE ROOM' in that cab with that amp?
ALL speakers have their sweet spot and mike type when getting the best to tape, but using a quality ribbon mike was the nearest and fairest I'd say without going o.t.t. with a full studio set up? Maybe shootouts aren't the best way the evaluate a speaker?
Here's my take on it. I'm sure the mic was fine, and I'm sure George did his best at putting the mic/cab at the same spot each time. But at four feet away, all it would take would be around 1/16" (1/16th of an inch, or the thickness of your fingernail) of sideways deflection to miss the same spot.

Even if you could assume the sweet spot of each speaker is the same, at four feet away, the difference from side to side or depth of a small amount could make the difference.

I've only been in professional studios a dozen times, but they were lengthy visits, and I paid close attention to the engineers, mic placement, etc.

Even when clients come to my demo room to test out speakers, they'll move the cab, or themselves to a particular spot to hear them where they sound the best to THEM. In other words, there are minute variables at work here, and the tolerances are a lot tighter than most would expect.

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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by VelvetGeorge » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:48 am

Positioning the mic back far enough to eliminate the directional qualities of the cone was the idea, so the mic can capture the cab as more of a whole than a box with 4 speakers. We started with it about 7 feet from the cab, but after test recordings decided there was too much room sound and not enough direct sound at that distance. After several moves and recordings I felt that 4 feet had the right combination of direct sound and ambiance (for that standing in front of the cab experience).

Controlling all variables should have made this a concise, apples to apples shootout. But in this case I agree that there would have been a more flattering mic position for the Crossroads.

My two questions are:

In the clip I shot in my shop, do the CR sound like they sounded when you heard them in person?

In the short, volume corrected clip I posted - does your perception change?


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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by Scumback Speakers » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:00 am

George, I'll be happy to listen to this again after I feel better.

I've been battling a head cold for a couple of days now and it wouldn't be fair to listen to the latest clips and offer my thoughts until the cold meds stop making my ears ring. I thought I had this beat last week, but it showed up to screw with me again on Sunday evening.

Between the sniffling/sneezing, and ringing in my ears, it ain't much fun in California right now.

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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by VelvetGeorge » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:09 am

Sorry to hear it! It's been the same here all Winter, people think they are over being sick then it comes back with a vengeance.

Let me know when you take a listen.

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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by neikeel » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:22 pm

I really liked the clips and felt that all of the speakers captured the GB sound. It was logical/scientific and truly did do the apples vs apples comparisons, of course different amp settings, mic tweaks might be beneficial to any of the sets of speakers in the same way that the guitarist might interact differently too by tweaking the guitar, pick attack etc but to me that was not the point as the tracks were re-amped and identical.

Most of the T1221Celestion 25w greenbacks I have had in the past have been relatively unimpressive. My personal favourite all-purpose GBs are actually the pulsonic T1511s in a 69 cab (which is what I gig with) although the 20watt T1221s in the P-S cab are great with a shared cathode plexi (that and the matching H25 equipped B cab stay at home).

As for the sweet spot question my 68/69 B cab with pulsonic G12H30s has its sweet spot about 50 yards away!
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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by scooter.thomas » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:44 pm

This is a very good demo. Thanks, George, for doing the heavy lifting and thanks to all else who contributed. Very cool!

My overriding takeaway is I prefer the '67 and ASW Crossroads. The other three seemed more aggressive in the mids, varying at times from ever so slightly to fairly noticeable. The Crossroads does seem odd in the vid but to my mind the additional audio clip reconciles what's going on. Clearly all the speakers are viable.

Ideally I would like to have seen Mojo, Weber, WGS (and I guess Eminence) represented, but mitigating circumstances no doubt. That, and some good cleans would have been nice? But no quibble. Again, great job and many thanks!
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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by rgorke » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:19 am

BaronGreenback wrote:jim is beating about the bush here but i think he is just rattled because his scumback speakers didnt come out on top.

i for one am glad of shootout videos like these. done by an honest third party and not made by scumback speakers, celestion, or anyone other speaker company featured in it. lets face it, their main agenda would be to make their own speakers sound best in any comparison clips or videos.

these videos will always come out differently depending on the setup and mic position etc, so many variables. i dont own any ASW or scumbacks, but the pre-rola sounds very familiar to my ears, and in my opinion this recording is a decent representation of it.

This post probably isn't worth responding to but the fact that Jim is responding to how frankly bad (IMHO) a competetor's speaker sounded has NOTHING to do with his speakers and how they may have faired in the demo. He could have just left it alone but came out in defense of ASW.

Did you read his post and follow up(s)?
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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by vanhalen5150 » Wed May 08, 2013 3:23 pm

Pete Thorn

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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by Tone Slinger » Wed May 08, 2013 5:51 pm

AWESOME !

Jim obviously has great speakers and wants them to be heard in the proper light. I thank him for having some 6402 coned celestions in a old JCM 800 slant when I was looking for one :thumbsup: . In the future, I hope to try his speakers in this old cab. He is 100 % REAL and will serve up NO BS to you.
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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by JohanSegeborn » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:55 pm

Thanks for a great demo Velvet George! I think the reissues held up very well to the ´67. I ususually prefer the G12H over the G12M but this video certainly made a strong point.

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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by Joshabr1 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:50 am

I'm with John. The 003 is my fave by a good bit but the reissues are closer than I would have thought. None of them have the lushness to the mids like the 003s.

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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by Joshabr1 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:51 am

But I would also say they all sound nice. Great idea on how to do a shootout the right way.

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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by evhintexas » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:18 pm

Added a quad of scumback m75s yesterday---man, they are awesome speakers !!!
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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by JimiJames » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:47 am

:thumbsup:
evhintexas wrote:Added a quad of scumback m75s yesterday..."
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Re: G12M speaker shootout video. Celestion, Scumback, ASW

Post by marblues2 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:17 pm

Jim made a believer out of me. I have been through 4 quads of speakers (none of which were scumbacks) in the last 14 months (chasing a certain tone). I contacted Jim and told him what I was looking for and purchased a quad of scumback M55's off of his recommendations, loaded my 4x12 and a little break-in time and I am completely blown away!

I play a 50 watt lead specs and 100 watt superlead which can be bright but those M55's calmed that brightness down and its woody tone all the way. So I concur, they are awesome speakers!

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