My MXR 6 Band with VariPlex!

[Strat78]

As far as front end boost goes, I hear it on On Fire but I'm not sure it is used any place ells on the first album.

[leadguy]

Ooooooooh! I would not say that.

There are a lot of differences in those frequency analysis graphs.

If someone wants to see a Variplex frequency analysis that is very close to Ed's then here it is http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 3&start=75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[leadguy]

That sounds fantastic, Strat78.

[motrock]

Well guys, I would have to agree... its too oversaturated. I am wandering if the key to what I am looking for is going to be in the pickup? I am using a WCR Darkburst. Great sounding pickup. Love the tone. But... not enough output. Jim over at WCR suggested that I may consider a WCR Godwood... because its around 10k output or so. Maybe there is also something to the Superdistortion thing also. I have heard that the new Wolfgang pickups are ceramic and based off of the Superdistortions. So... I don't know.

All I know is that the amp without and EQ or something in front of it doesn't have the amount of sizzle needed for the first album. I can NAIL Van Halen II with the guitar straight in to the amp. But the other albums... not enough push. I am starting to get the impression that Eddie did use a higher output pickup. There is no getting around it!

I am getting close.. I just have to refine everything.

Thoughts?

I will record my amp without the EQ... but it will have to be next weekend. Its a lot of work to record. I have to take my computer and everything downstairs... down a spiral staircase to where my amps are. Then I have to re-arrange the whole basement! Kind of a pain in the butt... but worth it in the end!

[Good Guest]

Wow great playing and tone.....I wouldn't dick with the mxr 6 band ..you got the 1.2 khz boost in spades and it could be the parts have drifted to allow that ..so don't touch it....if it aint broke don't fix it. You do have 2 weird things going on tho ..a boost at 60hz (hum frequency)and a major cut at exactly 600hz...funny paulscape has a major cut at 1khz exactly and yer both getting great tones. Anywhere from 600-1khz cuts tend to enhance the scooped mid metal crunchy tones.

You are right on the money ..with what yer using and the tone and gain yer getting ..if you want even more gain..yer choices for vh1 and earlier are ...differant pickup ,,univox...phase....flanger... not necessarly in that order.

Love your clips

[TWANGGG]

Ooooooooh! I would not say that.

There are a lot of differences in those frequency analysis graphs.

If someone wants to see a Variplex frequency analysis that is very close to Ed's then here it is http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 3&start=75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes you're right leadguy, there are obvious differences to be heard and seen, but it's a lot closer than I thought originally. I think if motrock were to use a couple of mics it would bring it closer by bridging those gaps at 6.5k and 8.5k to begin with.

Looks like perhaps you were hearing that spike around 10k when you commented about the high end "hair" earlier. And yes, I bet your hearing in that range is way better than Eddie's poor battered eardrums now !

[leadguy]

If I was doing it, then seeing that there is a Variplex clip and gear list that's pretty good already http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17343" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; then I would start there and I would also experiment with pickups but in the end I would just rely on my own ears because I would be the one playing.

It's not that your gear is a total writeoff or your playing either, it's just basically fine tuning and dialing things in.

[motrock]

Ooooooooh! I would not say that.

There are a lot of differences in those frequency analysis graphs.

If someone wants to see a Variplex frequency analysis that is very close to Ed's then here it is http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 3&start=75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes you're right leadguy, there are obvious differences to be heard and seen, but it's a lot closer than I thought originally. I think if motrock were to use a couple of mics it would bring it closer by bridging those gaps at 6.5k and 8.5k to begin with.

Looks like perhaps you were hearing that spike around 10k when you commented about the high end "hair" earlier. And yes, I bet your hearing in that range is way better than Eddie's poor battered eardrums now !

I should say that my VariPlex isn't a normal VariPlex. Dave changed the Output Transformer and messed with the filtering. From the stock amp to what Dave did... it sounds like a completely different amp!

[motrock]

Wow great playing and tone.....I wouldn't dick with the mxr 6 band ..you got the 1.2 khz boost in spades and it could be the parts have drifted to allow that ..so don't touch it....if it aint broke don't fix it. You do have 2 weird things going on tho ..a boost at 60hz (hum frequency)and a major cut at exactly 600hz...funny paulscape has a major cut at 1khz exactly and yer both getting great tones. Anywhere from 600-1khz cuts tend to enhance the scooped mid metal crunchy tones.

You are right on the money ..with what yer using and the tone and gain yer getting ..if you want even more gain..yer choices for vh1 and earlier are ...differant pickup ,,univox...phase....flanger... not necessarly in that order.

Love your clips

Thanks! So... where do you think I should adjust the MXR too? What frequencies do I need to mess with to get rid of the 60hz hum? Or is the hum due to something else you think? I feel like I am getting closer... thats for sure. Just a little bit of tweaking here and there!

I am thinking the pickup may be a source of some changes. I feel like I am on the right track with the Darkburst. What do you guys suggeest? Rockstah is blowing my mind with the Superdistortion!

Where is Rockstah at? Mark, what is your opinion on what I have going on here?

[Good Guest]

Wow great playing and tone.....I wouldn't dick with the mxr 6 band ..you got the 1.2 khz boost in spades and it could be the parts have drifted to allow that ..so don't touch it....if it aint broke don't fix it. You do have 2 weird things going on tho ..a boost at 60hz (hum frequency)and a major cut at exactly 600hz...funny paulscape has a major cut at 1khz exactly and yer both getting great tones. Anywhere from 600-1khz cuts tend to enhance the scooped mid metal crunchy tones.

You are right on the money ..with what yer using and the tone and gain yer getting ..if you want even more gain..yer choices for vh1 and earlier are ...differant pickup ,,univox...phase....flanger... not necessarly in that order.

Love your clips

Thanks! So... where do you think I should adjust the MXR too? What frequencies do I need to mess with to get rid of the 60hz hum? Or is the hum due to something else you think? I feel like I am getting closer... thats for sure. Just a little bit of tweaking here and there!

I think your mxr is fine ..hum is getting in from somewhere else ..maybe the ep pre?..something you have operating of an adapter?....I wouldn't think it is the amp unless you have a bad filter cap....the heater wiring is impecable in a variplex so it wouldn't be that..bad tube maybe? Computer or recording hum.... The 600hz cut is going to be a be a bigger problem that could be from guitar wood , pickup, cab, speaker , anyhthing and would be much harder to track down. But I notice that both Rockstash and Ralle have had drastic 600hz cuts in their clips also...could be an artifact of cascading... EVH tone doesn't have drastic 600hz cuts.

[motrock]

Wow great playing and tone.....I wouldn't dick with the mxr 6 band ..you got the 1.2 khz boost in spades and it could be the parts have drifted to allow that ..so don't touch it....if it aint broke don't fix it. You do have 2 weird things going on tho ..a boost at 60hz (hum frequency)and a major cut at exactly 600hz...funny paulscape has a major cut at 1khz exactly and yer both getting great tones. Anywhere from 600-1khz cuts tend to enhance the scooped mid metal crunchy tones.

You are right on the money ..with what yer using and the tone and gain yer getting ..if you want even more gain..yer choices for vh1 and earlier are ...differant pickup ,,univox...phase....flanger... not necessarly in that order.

Love your clips

Thanks! So... where do you think I should adjust the MXR too? What frequencies do I need to mess with to get rid of the 60hz hum? Or is the hum due to something else you think? I feel like I am getting closer... thats for sure. Just a little bit of tweaking here and there!

I think your mxr is fine ..hum is getting in from somewhere else ..maybe the ep pre?..something you have operating of an adapter?....I wouldn't think it is the amp unless you have a bad filter cap....the heater wiring is impecable in a variplex so it wouldn't be that..bad tube maybe? Computer or recording hum.... The 600hz cut is going to be a be a bigger problem that could be from guitar wood , pickup, cab, speaker , anyhthing and would be much harder to track down. But I notice that both Rockstash and Ralle have had drastic 600hz cuts in their clips also...could be an artifact of cascading... EVH tone doesn't have drastic 600hz cuts.

Well, I have the Greenbacks... 6402 cones. Ralle, Rockstah, and I have those speakers. The original Blackbacks that Eddie used had 1777 cones. Also, I wander if my guitar wood causing it.

Can 600hz be added back to the tone with an EQ?

[Good Guest]

[quote="motrock"

Well, I have the Greenbacks... 6402 cones. Ralle, Rockstah, and I have those speakers. The original Blackbacks that Eddie used had 1777 cones. Also, I wander if my guitar wood causing it.

Can 600hz be added back to the tone with an EQ?[/quote]

Well that may be the answer right there(speaker cones)as you found the one thing you have in common..For getting the frequency back ..the best way woulld probably be the cab design...maybe one of the cab gurus can help you with that..or maybe there is a differant speaker cab combo that would do the trick. maybe replacing one or two speakers with one or two that reproduce the 600hz frequency better... That would be the easier way to go than getting into guitar wood etc.

[motrock]

[quote="motrock"

Well, I have the Greenbacks... 6402 cones. Ralle, Rockstah, and I have those speakers. The original Blackbacks that Eddie used had 1777 cones. Also, I wander if my guitar wood causing it.

Can 600hz be added back to the tone with an EQ?

Well that may be the answer right there(speaker cones)as you found the one thing you have in common..For getting the frequency back ..the best way woulld probably be the cab design...maybe one of the cab gurus can help you with that..or maybe there is a differant speaker cab combo that would do the trick. maybe replacing one or two speakers with one or two that reproduce the 600hz frequency better... That would be the easier way to go than getting into guitar wood etc.[/quote]

Is there a readout, or a graph somewhere that compares the different Greenback cones?

I know my cabs are not the problem. I built the cabs with my grandpa. They are a reproduction of Marshall cabs from the late 60s. Jim from Scumback helped me out with the process over the phone.

I may have to get myself a Greenback with the 1777 cone. Maybe I will just get one and put it in my cab... and just mic it!

[Good Guest]

Well if it's any consolation 4X12 cabs do have a 600hz cut that is normal...but I think yer idea of trying a differant speaker or cone for one speaker is great....another thing too is that 1.2 khz might be a design feature of your cab designed to conteract the 1.2 khz cut that the vintage speakers had at that time . So your doing great in the cab department.

[cary chilton]

Twaang thanks for the spectrum read out, I was about too call the nay-sayers stoned baffoons because that tone for Eruption was DEADNUTS. Like I said, I love it. It is closer to Eruption than anyone here has EVER gotten, period. That said, as learned from tweaking in Eleven to match 34 VH songs they are all very different. Good news for Motrock, the VH 1 tones are generally all variations from YRGM, Eruption and I'm The One. If Motrock experiements he should be able to dial any album tone.

The hairiness some talked about is simply too much signal with the pedals... probably the EP-PRE. Ed's sound was hairy but he controlled the hair. So Motrock, Keep the EP-pre for coloration, but if using the MXR with it's boost, keep the EP's level down.

The Darkburst, changed won't get it's sound anymore, so don't mess with it.

Motrock, you hit Eruption GOLD here so you now need ( should?) get the complete specs and work DAVE F did and changed on the vari-plex. You said it is a totally different amp... well I think that might be a bit much, but what do you mean, specifically?

If you want more output, try a VINTAGE mighty mite or a VINTAGE DSD if your answer.

I have listed what my ear hears for the possible pu per album tone in past threads.... should be made a sticky! My ear told me that Motrock's Eruption tone was dead nuts immediately. ...easy to discern. I think I am correct about my pu ideas. Ask Ralle if he thinks I was on the money with suggesting to him, several times, to give the vintage DSD a try again.