EVH TONE RIGHT HERE

[Matt]

now this is classic...

compare Eds' 'new tone' - maybe with his 'new amps' - w/ Rockstahs EVH tone at the top of this thread. these are the short soundclips played as soundtrack behind the Frankie Video possibly recorded w/ Wolfie on bass.....

i think Ed should give Marc/Rockstah an SOS call for help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ziwQw3v3Q


cheers,

J.

I agree complete that tone is shit, Im sorry reminds me when van halen III austraila with Gary Cherome, anyone have that Dvd I do, listn to Ed good God sounds the same upper Mids in this amp Im sorry here guys this Sounds like ASS!! Sounds like a wah pedal clicked on left in the upper position.
Why in the hell doesnt Ed Open is mind and ears, Why didnt he run over to marshall get some top techs and say listen I want to recapture this TONE that made him Famous!! I do not understand anyone want to explain this??
Well if thats the big come back, I guess i will pass seeing them live lol, Man I hate that sound in van halen III and its the same crappin tonage!!

Here it is right here tell me if im wrong?? Same TONE! sounds like peavey to me, anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLV8nVoZ ... ed&search=

thanks for posting this
TONE

Sounds like a direct recording to me, even the peaveys sound better than that, Ive played throught 5150s before and they dont sound nearly that bad, it has to be take from a line out into the board, has to be. The demos and namm actually sounded pretty decent.

[IloveMyMarshall]

now this is classic...

compare Eds' 'new tone' - maybe with his 'new amps' - w/ Rockstahs EVH tone at the top of this thread. these are the short soundclips played as soundtrack behind the Frankie Video possibly recorded w/ Wolfie on bass.....

i think Ed should give Marc/Rockstah an SOS call for help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ziwQw3v3Q


cheers,

J.

I agree complete that tone is shit, Im sorry reminds me when van halen III austraila with Gary Cherome, anyone have that Dvd I do, listn to Ed good God sounds the same upper Mids in this amp Im sorry here guys this Sounds like ASS!! Sounds like a wah pedal clicked on left in the upper position.
Why in the hell doesnt Ed Open is mind and ears, Why didnt he run over to marshall get some top techs and say listen I want to recapture this TONE that made him Famous!! I do not understand anyone want to explain this??
Well if thats the big come back, I guess i will pass seeing them live lol, Man I hate that sound in van halen III and its the same crappin tonage!!

Here it is right here tell me if im wrong?? Same TONE! sounds like peavey to me, anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLV8nVoZ ... ed&search=

thanks for posting this
TONE

Sounds like a direct recording to me, even the peaveys sound better than that, Ive played throught 5150s before and they dont sound nearly that bad, it has to be take from a line out into the board, has to be. The demos and namm actually sounded pretty decent.

That could be it!!Sounds to compressed and the upper mids are to much, thats my ears maybe? I have a clip of eddie Direct out live and man its hot, I will try and post, but he was dead on, and you can really hear his tone was beyond clean and zero mistakes, I will dig it up and try and post, its not on youtube I dont think I looked and couldnt find her. It's def. IMHO his best live solo!
TONAGE

[JWR]

Last night Wifey was close by and I played Marks, Ralles, and the GE10 VH tone samples from the threads. From a totally unbiased persective The Rocksta clip is #1.

[Kapo_Polenton]

For those of us who are description impaired, did Rockstah ever decide to do some editing of one of the layouts to show the rest of us where exactly the changes were? The first 4 pages of the thread people are all over making diff assumptions and not quite understanding his instructions.. would be wicked if we could see the layout of the initial amp and where the changes were. PPIMV is clear though, he already circulated a good image of that! So Rockstah what do you say? Even just snapshots of the areas that need changing and then the layout to refer to?

[Guitarjb]

chassis shot!!

...2203 spec with low filtering, (40u mains, 16u screens, 16u PI, dual 32u preamp.) a PPIMV. gain and preamp dimed.... simple as that.

so if you take a stock 12 series and cascade the first two stages u end up with a 2203. adding a 10k on the second stage instead of the 330u/820 that was there when it was a two channel amp.
now there is gain thats always missing from a 1959 circuit...

Mark,

On my '81 JCM 800 2203: if I only change the filtering to what you have listed above, should I be able to get same awesome results as you, or would I need to install the PPIMV as well?

Joe

[Namar]

Probably not, the jcm800 2203's are voiced alot brighter than the old plexi layout mark used. He put the extra gain stage of the 2203 into a plexi preamp. You would be softening the filtering of a jcm800 preamp.

You'd wanna change some input grid resistors and cut out a cap or two as well to refocus the tone in the happy happy mids like the plexi (eg - replace the 470/470 rk/ck for a 68k, etc.) or you'll be uber bright thin and scratchy.

Essentially, rebuild your whole preamp section to the 12 series specs these awesome guys have nailed down for us all, but keep the 2203 single channel/cascaded gain layout.

[rgalpin]

You'd wanna change some input grid resistors and cut out a cap or two as well to refocus the tone in the happy happy mids like the plexi (eg - replace the 470/470 rk/ck for a 68k, etc.) or you'll be uber bright thin and scratchy.
.

hey are you saying that a 470k/470pf rk/ck has the equivalent resistance as a 68k resistor alone?

i have often thought about what an even swap would be between any rk/ck and a simple resistor. is there a formula?

[Guitarjb]

Probably not, the jcm800 2203's are voiced alot brighter than the old plexi layout mark used. He put the extra gain stage of the 2203 into a plexi preamp. You would be softening the filtering of a jcm800 preamp.

You'd wanna change some input grid resistors and cut out a cap or two as well to refocus the tone in the happy happy mids like the plexi (eg - replace the 470/470 rk/ck for a 68k, etc.) or you'll be uber bright thin and scratchy.

Essentially, rebuild your whole preamp section to the 12 series specs these awesome guys have nailed down for us all, but keep the 2203 single channel/cascaded gain layout.

Thanks for this info. If it were simply swapping out the filter cans, that would be no big deal. But in this case, I'll leave my JCM 800 alone and just build one from scratch to those specs. I don't want to be screwing with a good JCM 800 unnecessarily.

Thanks again,
Joe

[Namar]

Actually, nm, I was looking at a differenct pic, it wasn't rockstah's amp. Maybe he did use regular 2203 settings, with just lower filtering.

The difference I was talking about (and incorrectly called it rk/ck, doh. It's on the grid, not the cathode, just r/c - resistor and cap paralleled) is if you cascade a regular 1959, you'll go through the v1b grid at 68k. In the jcm800, you go through a 470k/470pf resistor/cap, which makes it brighter than the 68k a 'typical' basic cascaded superlead would probably be using.

rgalpin: it shouldn't change the resistance, adding a cap to the cathode bias resistor, it just affects the freq of signal to be bypassed around. The math of modulation effects there is beyond me though, so I don't have a clue on a formula for ya, heh. My curiousity isn't great enough to smarten up to that level.

But yeah, nm guys, I honestly don't know if mark was using the plexi 68k resistor that would be there for the normal input resistance, or the 470k/470 (the metro layout has a 470/500 - wait -nm, I see another layout with the 68k instead of 470/470, maybe mark is using that, hell this is a mess!) of a 2203. I doubt he just did the 'ol one wire mod, or it'd squeal like a pig, heh. Maybe it is the fatness added by his ppimv that is making the 2203 sound nice and thick along with the filtering.

Sorry for the confusion, he'll have to answer that! I'll go away now.



edit: oh, I popped open my 2203 as this thread has made me curious, and that 470/470 trebly r/c combo isn't on the board, just jumpered from the preamp vol pot to the low input jack. Super easy to mod that then if ya wanted, no harder than snipping the bright cap, if it's even an issue here. The pi filter cap is simple enough too, but the preamp filter ya gotta lift the board, I dunno if the leads are long enough to give enough room without alot of monkeying. The ppimv is gonna leave some scars too, if you are trying to keep a virgin board. Speaking of that: Man my 2203 is clean, I've never messed with it at all, in fact I think this is the first time I've ever popped the chassis and really looked at it in the 5 years I've had it. The urge to tinker is getting strong, but it's soooo clean... Nooo! I've even got extra 2x16 and 2x32 f&t filter cans. Don't have enough spare parts for the ppimv though....

[Guitarjb]

Actually, nm, I was looking at a differenct pic, it wasn't rockstah's amp. Maybe he did use regular 2203 settings, with just lower filtering.

The difference I was talking about (and incorrectly called it rk/ck, doh. It's on the grid, not the cathode, just r/c - resistor and cap paralleled) is if you cascade a regular 1959, you'll go through the v1b grid at 68k. In the jcm800, you go through a 470k/470pf resistor/cap, which makes it brighter than the 68k a 'typical' basic cascaded superlead would probably be using.

rgalpin: it shouldn't change the resistance, adding a cap to the cathode bias resistor, it just affects the freq of signal to be bypassed around. The math of modulation effects there is beyond me though, so I don't have a clue on a formula for ya, heh. My curiousity isn't great enough to smarten up to that level.

But yeah, nm guys, I honestly don't know if mark was using the plexi 68k resistor that would be there for the normal input resistance, or the 470k/470 (the metro layout has a 470/500 - wait -nm, I see another layout with the 68k instead of 470/470, maybe mark is using that, hell this is a mess!) of a 2203. I doubt he just did the 'ol one wire mod, or it'd squeal like a pig, heh. Maybe it is the fatness added by his ppimv that is making the 2203 sound nice and thick along with the filtering.

Sorry for the confusion, he'll have to answer that! I'll go away now.



edit: oh, I popped open my 2203 as this thread has made me curious, and that 470/470 trebly r/c combo isn't on the board, just jumpered from the preamp vol pot to the low input jack. Super easy to mod that then if ya wanted, no harder than snipping the bright cap, if it's even an issue here. The pi filter cap is simple enough too, but the preamp filter ya gotta lift the board, I dunno if the leads are long enough to give enough room without alot of monkeying. The ppimv is gonna leave some scars too, if you are trying to keep a virgin board. Speaking of that: Man my 2203 is clean, I've never messed with it at all, in fact I think this is the first time I've ever popped the chassis and really looked at it in the 5 years I've had it. The urge to tinker is getting strong, but it's soooo clean... Nooo! I've even got extra 2x16 and 2x32 f&t filter cans. Don't have enough spare parts for the ppimv though....

Thank you for this additional info. I know how you feel, I don't want to start going nuts and mess with an otherwise clean/un-F'ed with amp. But again, if it's simply a matter of changing filter cans, no big deal. My 2203 is from '81, first year JCM 800, and it has the original filter cans; it might need a cap job anyway. I haven't played it in a while but I'm going to crank it up over the weekend to see what sort of shape it's in.

Joe

[Namar]

Try putting a dual 32 can in series for the phase inverter, pull the 50 and swap. Then chuck the bright cap. If there is a hell, it should be chock full of those things. Gawd damn, they absolutely ruin the tone of the amp from 1/4-3/4 volume. I just unsoldered one leg, and was testing by tapping the loose leg on, turn it up, the take it off and turn it up. Blech, that bright cap makes it sound like there is a wah pedal working with the volume pot from about 1/4 until almost full throttle. I'd never really tested it like that before, it sounds yucky!

Took out the 470/470 'treble peaking' doohicky, replaced it with a 100k I had laying around. That didn't sound right, when you turned the master vol up, it has that same kinda fooked up wahh sound the bright cap had, too much high end I guess. Tried a 47k, and just about dropped my pants. 47k in where the treble-pecker circuit was, and the dual32's in series for 16pf on the p/i, that got me closer to vh land than I've ever been.
Everything dimed, but the bass on zero, master vol on about 8, no ppimv either, used my hotplate as an attenuator, throttled way down - threw a sleeping bag over the cab, and just lifted it over the bottom 1/4 with my knee to get the right high end, and boom. I've been playing it non stop for freakin' hours...

That was a bone stock 2203, just changed those 3 little things, took maybe 5 mins, and took it from lame painful super bright jcm800 to juicy sex machine!

Gotta play around with some of the other filtering to see what that does, and definitely get a ppimv, as that is my last set of power tubes and I'm dead ass poor, don't wanna smoke 'em now that it finally sounds good!

Edit: I just can't stop playing the damn thing. It's like god came down and said 'you've suffered enough, here is that tone you wanted'. The tubes were getting so hot it was starting to smell like overheated metal, so I stuck the amp on my variac and took it down to between 90-100 volts. This actually kinda tightened the gain, cleared up the mids, and balanced the sound a bit more. Took the preamp and master to about 8, and it just smokes man. Man, I only changed a few itty bitty little pieces, just pieces I'd never changed before, and bam... The squish and fuzz from the filtering change makes the amp sound and feel like it has 2-3 times the gain it had before, it is nuts, I hardly did anything, wtf??!! Sticking it on the variac and taken the vols a few notches down from WFO, the output transformer is just barely getting warm, the hotplate only slightly warmer, and the tubes quit stinking. Sweeeeet!

[Guitarjb]

Try putting a dual 32 can in series for the phase inverter, pull the 50 and swap. Then chuck the bright cap. If there is a hell, it should be chock full of those things. Gawd damn, they absolutely ruin the tone of the amp from 1/4-3/4 volume. I just unsoldered one leg, and was testing by tapping the loose leg on, turn it up, the take it off and turn it up. Blech, that bright cap makes it sound like there is a wah pedal working with the volume pot from about 1/4 until almost full throttle. I'd never really tested it like that before, it sounds yucky!

Took out the 470/470 'treble peaking' doohicky, replaced it with a 100k I had laying around. That didn't sound right, when you turned the master vol up, it has that same kinda fooked up wahh sound the bright cap had, too much high end I guess. Tried a 47k, and just about dropped my pants. 47k in where the treble-pecker circuit was, and the dual32's in series for 16pf on the p/i, that got me closer to vh land than I've ever been.
Everything dimed, but the bass on zero, master vol on about 8, no ppimv either, used my hotplate as an attenuator, throttled way down - threw a sleeping bag over the cab, and just lifted it over the bottom 1/4 with my knee to get the right high end, and boom. I've been playing it non stop for freakin' hours...

That was a bone stock 2203, just changed those 3 little things, took maybe 5 mins, and took it from lame painful super bright jcm800 to juicy sex machine!

Gotta play around with some of the other filtering to see what that does, and definitely get a ppimv, as that is my last set of power tubes and I'm dead ass poor, don't wanna smoke 'em now that it finally sounds good!

Edit: I just can't stop playing the damn thing. It's like god came down and said 'you've suffered enough, here is that tone you wanted'. The tubes were getting so hot it was starting to smell like overheated metal, so I stuck the amp on my variac and took it down to between 90-100 volts. This actually kinda tightened the gain, cleared up the mids, and balanced the sound a bit more. Took the preamp and master to about 8, and it just smokes man. Man, I only changed a few itty bitty little pieces, just pieces I'd never changed before, and bam... The squish and fuzz from the filtering change makes the amp sound and feel like it has 2-3 times the gain it had before, it is nuts, I hardly did anything, wtf??!! Sticking it on the variac and taken the vols a few notches down from WFO, the output transformer is just barely getting warm, the hotplate only slightly warmer, and the tubes quit stinking. Sweeeeet!

Well this is great feedback. I think I might have to try this.

To wire the 32uF filter can in series, would I simply connect the two positive terminals? Also, I assume you are running EL-34 power tubes, not 6550?

Joe

[Namar]

Yip, just solder a little jumper across the two positive terminals, the attach the lead wire to one of 'em, and ground the ground, heh.

Yeah, it specifically has electro harmonix el34's, and the pre's are an ei gold elite in v1, and groove tube mullards in v2 and v3. Err, wait, I just checked and it is actually a jj ecc83s in v3. Where did that other mullard copy go? Anyway, the el34's are not biased, I just crank the bias pot full cold so they don't burn up. I honestly think it sounds better that way anyhooo. heh.

Good luck, that was the most satisfying amp mod I've made since I started dinking around with them. Amazing....

[ScottW]

To wire the 32uF filter can in series, would I simply connect the two positive terminals?
Joe

Connecting the two positive terminals puts the caps in parallel, not in series. So, 32uF in parallel with 32uF = 64uF. There's no way I know of to put the caps in a can in series because they share a common ground.

Are you looking for the value of 32 in series with 32? That's equal to 16uF. If you want 16uF from a dual cap can, use a 16x16 can and connect just one side.

[Guitarjb]

To wire the 32uF filter can in series, would I simply connect the two positive terminals?
Joe

Connecting the two positive terminals puts the caps in parallel, not in series. So, 32uF in parallel with 32uF = 64uF. There's no way I know of to put the caps in a can in series because they share a common ground.

Are you looking for the value of 32 in series with 32? That's equal to 16uF. If you want 16uF from a dual cap can, use a 16x16 can and connect just one side.

Namar: does this mean you're actually running 64uF on the phase inverter, NOT 16uF?

Joe