Jose Master Volume question

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rockstah
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Re: LMAO

Post by rockstah » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:06 pm

IloveMyMarshall wrote:
rockstah wrote:interesting post in that we are talking about two differnet circuits let alone two differnt versions of the master. ;)
LOL

Hey WTF I tried!! correct I thought jose mod??? Are there two of them with the master???
and thats fine! again I'm only going on the one that Mark C has made clear. I'm sure there are a few different masters since Jose did a bunch of mods. again i was just clarifying that what u posted and the mod being described here are two different things. and if ya didn't know before, now ya do. ;)

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Re: LMAO

Post by IloveMyMarshall » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:10 pm

rockstah wrote:
IloveMyMarshall wrote:
rockstah wrote:interesting post in that we are talking about two differnet circuits let alone two differnt versions of the master. ;)
Easy cow girl!!! It said Jose mod calm down go do some curls come back!! I was freekin afriad to post why well read ur smart ass come back damn dude do u like anyone??? LOL

One more thang u aint that damn good either brother so calm the fk down!! Bro!!
I sure aint going to kiss ur ass because ur in some fking has been outdated fking band LOL


Yes thats steve and he is the SHITS man Great human most helpful in every way I will make sure tho Never to fking post again!! Thats it!!!

Steve Rocks!!!
was there something wrong with my post that gave u the idea i didn't like you? :shock:
i was just clarifying for future readers that what u described and whats being said in the thread this far are two different circuits and two different master volumes.


Damn you jumped on that, shit after I read I was like Man shut up<<< meaning me, dont start any shit LOL<<< LOL and replaced with a more clamer version and I come back and BAM its up LOL'

Man that was fast mark, I wasnt going to post that shit, well I did and when to correct after I read Im like to self Dont be a asshole<<<< and changed come back and its up

OOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSS

Oh well I guess I will go crawl back in that hole LMAO!!
Sorry man lol
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rockstah
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Re: LMAO

Post by rockstah » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:17 pm

rockstah wrote:
IloveMyMarshall wrote:
rockstah wrote:interesting post in that we are talking about two differnet circuits let alone two differnt versions of the master. ;)
LOL

Hey WTF I tried!! correct I thought jose mod??? Are there two of them with the master???
and thats fine! again I'm only going on the one that Mark C has made clear. I'm sure there are a few different masters since Jose did a bunch of mods. again i was just clarifying that what u posted and the mod being described here are two different things. and if ya didn't know before, now ya do. ;)
don't worry about it man! i guess ya cant please everybody all the time. as you have seen with some of my honest opinion posts that have obviously rubbed people wrong.
so it is part my my responsibility of WHO you may take something i post.

my apologies but i tend to tell it like it is and it sometimes gets me in trouble. " if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all" is sometimes, with my passion for anything i do, something i don't pay enough attention to! 8)

so dont get me wrong,i love this place and everyone here! :D

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Post by SDM » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:18 pm

Ilovemymarshalls, I don't think Mark meant anything there.

The master I described above there IS the same Jose master though, read the description closer, it's just diodeless. Yeah that was to try in a 2204 I think, but will it work in that circuit too.

Anyway Mark, your drawing is the way to go to avoid the signal bleed Mark Cameron mentioned as it will likely be annoying at lower volumes especially. The way I described it above was just a quick and dirty way to test it out the master itself (no extra clipping).

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Post by rockstah » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:22 pm

SDM wrote:Ilovemymarshalls, I don't think Mark meant anything there.

The master I described above there IS the same Jose master though, read the description closer, it's just diodeless. Yeah that was to try in a 2204 I think, but will it work in that circuit too.

Anyway Mark, your drawing is the way to go to avoid the signal bleed Mark Cameron mentioned as it will likely be annoying at lower volumes especially. The way I described it above was just a quick and dirty way to test it out the master itself (no extra clipping).
hmm i guess i assumed that doing it to a 2203 circuit it would still have the cascadeded gain stage and not be a plexi circuit with the master before the tone stack.
SDM perhaps post your diagram so i can take a peek at how u have it. ;)

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Post by SDM » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:46 pm

Hey Mark, it'd be the same as yours, just fit on the front where a 2203 master would already be. Again though your drawing is the way to go to avoid the signal bleed you can get.

The Jose is just a master before the phase inverter (ignoring the diodes) like a 2203, and to put a Jose in a 2203 you'd just be moving the master from after the tone stack (and directly feeding the PI), to before the tone stack (and now feeding the tone stack). You need the .22uf cap on the Jose to keep the cathode follower operation from being mucked by the pot (and zeners), and to keep DC off the master. By moving the master location in the circuit there you change the way it interacts with what, so get a different sound through the master sweep. Since the 2203 is cascaded already you may have enough distortion at lower volumes, so not need the diodes and why I left them off the rough description posted earlier.

In a plexi, if you only go Jose master, no diodes, you only get the clipping of the first 2 tubes at low volumes, not too exciting, so the diodes come in to add some extra distortion. No extra gain though, just clipping the signal peaks above the breakdown voltage of the zener which gives you distortion. Below the Zener breakdown voltage, the diodes do nothing, so will pass the signal unaltered. The signal to the PI can get weak though if you clip too low with the Zeners. So you may trade massive diode clipping for PI clipping and even loose the ability to overdrive the PI or attain max volume if you go way too low on the clipping threshold of your diodes. So that's why you should stay in the range Mark Cameron suggested.

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Post by jnewlyn » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:38 pm

Well, I tried this Jose Master and I like it. It's cool if you just want to attenuate your dimed plexi a bit. The tone stays awesome and you can actually control the beast. I don't like what starts to happen below about 7 or 8 on the master though. Just isn't the same. Not good it you want to try and play your plexi at bedroom volumes. I wired it up just like the way Rockstah first posted early in this thread. I didn't have any shielded wire either but seems to still work fine.
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Post by gnugear » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:32 am

Does a PPIMV sound better that then Cameron master at low levels?
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Post by jnewlyn » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:06 am

I wouldn't be able to say as this is the only Master I've ever tried. However, when I get back from offshore (one week from tomorrow) I'm going to try a PPIMV. I'll be able to share my comparisons then.
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Post by Tazin » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:32 pm

This is going back a handfull of years, but I remember a master volume circuit extremely similiar to the one that Mark C posted. The pot value was different (not 1 meg.) and it used 1N4745 zener diodes......If memory serves me well; I believe it was a Jose master setup too. I know there's also another Jose master that uses a transitor in conjuction with a pot.

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Post by Good Guest » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Tazin wrote:This is going back a handfull of years, but I remember a master volume circuit extremely similiar to the one that Mark C posted. The pot value was different (not 1 meg.) and it used 1N4745 zener diodes......If memory serves me well; I believe it was a Jose master setup too. I know there's also another Jose master that uses a transitor in conjuction with a pot.
The 1n4745 is a 16 volt zener... the other one is a 20 volt ..so this is pretty well corresponding with what a lot are saying. The clipping threshold voltage is the key here. Do you want your master to clip at 1,2,3,...10 it all depends on the clipping voltage of the zener.

If I was to do this I think I would use typical rectifier diodes and add a pot to adjust the clipping voltage so I can cause clipping at whatever voltage I desired..unless I was running everything at full volume then it would make sense to have it set at one voltage.

hmmm a transistor in conjunction with a pot is interesting especially if it is used as a buffer..that way you can free up the cathode follower for an added gain stage and use the transistor as an emitter follower (same as cathode follower) but requiring a lot less voltage to operate. A lot of hybrids probably use a FET for this tho. Of course purists will probably frown at the use of a transistor in there plexi.

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Post by erigm » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:52 pm

Good Guest wrote:The 1n4745 is a 16 volt zener... the other one is a 20 volt ..so this is pretty well corresponding with what a lot are saying. The clipping threshold voltage is the key here. Do you want your master to clip at 1,2,3,...10 it all depends on the clipping voltage of the zener.

If I was to do this I think I would use typical rectifier diodes and add a pot to adjust the clipping voltage so I can cause clipping at whatever voltage I desired..unless I was running everything at full volume then it would make sense to have it set at one voltage.
Actually since the diodes are in parallel with the master the setting of the pot wouldn't have anything to do with controling the clipping. Of course it would if the diodes were across the wiper and ground of the pot.

Now if you use rectifier diodes and then put a pot in series with it adjusting the pot won't change the clipping threshold but more the ratio of clipping (kinda like a compressor). It will adjust from a hard square wave clip to a softer clip. The only way to adjust the threshold is to use different voltage zeners (you could also string a bunch of rectifier diodes in series too) or using reference voltages for both the positive and negative swings of the signal. This is all outlined in TUT1.
erigm

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Post by novosibir » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:57 pm

Correct!

The clipping only will be controllable by the Preamp Volumen, not by the Master Volume!

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Post by Guitar Adjuster » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:43 pm

Has anyone installed this in their amp yet???????

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Post by MrDan666 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:55 pm

Guitar Adjuster wrote:Has anyone installed this in their amp yet???????
My Metro PTP board should be here this week and im going to install it. Cant wait to hear how it sounds! Im also planning on adding a couple other mods too, which im working on.

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