Explaining Eddie Van Halen's Rig - By Cristopher Michael

[budubum]

Guitar > EQ > Phase90 > Univox Echo > Marshall > Load box > Flanger > Echo Plex(s) > Marshall/or HH Power amp > Cabs

this is all i needed to know.

what about the univox echo? whats it doin infront? shouldnt that be too much of an effect if put upfront?

[jnewlyn]

[budubum]

wait . were you laughing at me? hihi.
i know i know. i ask too much but this is the only way

[jnewlyn]

Nope. The smiley was because I thought the same thing. That's why I laughed.

[budubum]

Nope. The smiley was because I thought the same thing. That's why I laughed.

hehe i was just kiddin man. no harm meant:P

[jnewlyn]

Nope. The smiley was because I thought the same thing. That's why I laughed.

hehe i was just kiddin man. no harm meant:P

Yeah man, all's good.

[Mr Crumb]

Guitar > EQ > Phase90 > Univox Echo > Marshall > Load box > Flanger > Echo Plex(s) > Marshall/or HH Power amp > Cabs

this is all i needed to know.

what about the univox echo? whats it doin infront? shouldnt that be too much of an effect if put upfront?

I made a mistake, the phase 90 should be after the univox echo. If you listen to the racksystem clips posted, you can hear the univox echo ducking in and out. Sometimes you cant hear it at all, other times it's there. This happens because of the natural compression/overdrive of the first marshall head. This causes a very unobscured echo effect. It's there just enough for your brain to construct an entire powerful echo field and not there at times, to prevent it from jumbling up Eddies huge guitar tone. If you run it after the distortion, you would need to turn it's level way down to prevent it from being over kill. And then it wouldnt be as big sounding. The echoplex(s) after the first marshall are only dialed in enough to add a slight bit of ambience(100-160 mS) akin to the delay which was used ahead of the plate reverb on the early VH records.

[budubum]

Guitar > EQ > Phase90 > Univox Echo > Marshall > Load box > Flanger > Echo Plex(s) > Marshall/or HH Power amp > Cabs

this is all i needed to know.

what about the univox echo? whats it doin infront? shouldnt that be too much of an effect if put upfront?

I made a mistake, the phase 90 should be after the univox echo. If you listen to the racksystem clips posted, you can hear the univox echo ducking in and out. Sometimes you cant hear it at all, other times it's there. This happens because of the natural compression/overdrive of the first marshall head. This causes a very unobscured echo effect. It's there just enough for your brain to construct an entire powerful echo field and not there at times, to prevent it from jumbling up Eddies huge guitar tone. If you run it after the distortion, you would need to turn it's level way down to prevent it from being over kill. And then it wouldnt be as big sounding. The echoplex(s) after the first marshall are only dialed in enough to add a slight bit of ambience(100-160 mS) akin to the delay which was used ahead of the plate reverb on the early VH records.

thanks. just what i thought. we wouldnt want to screw up his tone

[rgalpin]

... if you listen to the racksystem clips posted, you can hear the univox echo ducking in and out. Sometimes you cant hear it at all, other times it's there. This happens because of the natural compression/overdrive of the first marshall head. This causes a very unobscured echo effect. It's there just enough for your brain to construct an entire powerful echo field and not there at times, to prevent it from jumbling up Eddies huge guitar tone.

i believe this is a great key to getting the correct delay effect and you describe it perfectly. however, i have 2 questions about your assumptions.

1. if he is using a marshall as a power amp he would get the ducking effect heard in the ISO clips even if he places that echo after the first amp. i've done it and it works just like what you hear in the ISO tracks. if you put it in front of the first amp the ducking effect is more dramatic and in my opinion TOO dramatic.

2. the univox was used for that 350-ish ms delay that ed always uses? is there a reason why you assume it is not the echoplex?

[jimmy_j]

Stupid question.
How come Christopher M erren's nickname can't be written here? Was there an incident? Please elaborate.

[Mr Crumb]

i believe this is a great key to getting the correct delay effect and you describe it perfectly. however, i have 2 questions about your assumptions.

1. if he is using a marshall as a power amp he would get the ducking effect heard in the ISO clips even if he places that echo after the first amp. i've done it and it works just like what you hear in the ISO tracks. if you put it in front of the first amp the ducking effect is more dramatic and in my opinion TOO dramatic.

The second marshall is used for it's clean power. It's not overdeiven, or if it is, only a slight bit to where it isnt noticeable. You are correct, if the second marshall were overdriven, and the echoplexes before it, the echoplexes would duck... BUT, the already overdriven, compressed guitar from the first marshall would render this ducking effect useless due to the complete lack of dynamics from the overdriven guitar/effects/1st marshall. The key to getting a good ducked echo is running a dynamic signal(from a guitar) into an echo, THEN compressing/overdriving it.

2. the univox was used for that 350-ish ms delay that ed always uses? is there a reason why you assume it is not the echoplex?

I think it's the univox because Eddie said he used the univox to get the echo dive at the end of eruption. We know Eddie ran the phase 90 before the first marshall. And if you listen to the echo dive at the end of eruption. At the end when it stops descending and is just looping, the loop is phasing. In order for the loop to be phasing, the echo HAS TO BE before the phaser. So if eddie said that the echo dive is done with the univox echo, the echo before the 1st marshall should be the Univox echo.

[plexified]

The guy is a brilliant electronics enginner that works for NASA and the department of defense . He grew up with Ed and probably knows more than all of us combined . His participation regarding helping people in the music world goes waaaay back to before 1995 at least with my experience and he is a true gentleman . In 1995 he was helping me with data sheets and specs on Vox Albion and Wooten transformers . He wouldn't hesitate to talk about grain orientation of the laminations , the wire composition , its source regarding county of origin and such , and this was on a Hi-End discussion board for home tube stereo gear . I would speculate frustration on his behalf and controversy in the human nature of communication has alot to do with it , But hey , did you check out Mr. Crumbs clips he has added to his signiture , brace yourself . Its the highlight of this thread , trust me . David His signiture regarding the fire , is the shizzle !

[jnewlyn]

The guy is a brilliant electronics enginner that works for NASA and the department of defense . He grew up with Ed and probably knows more than all of us combined . His participation regarding helping people in the music world goes waaaay back to before 1995 at least with my experience and he is a true gentleman . In 1995 he was helping me with data sheets and specs on Vox Albion and Wooten transformers . He wouldn't hesitate to talk about grain orientation of the laminations , the wire composition , its source regarding county of origin and such , and this was on a Hi-End discussion board for home tube stereo gear . I would speculate frustration on his behalf and controversy in the human nature of communication has alot to do with it , But hey , did you check out Mr. Crumbs clips he has added to his signiture , brace yourself . Its the highlight of this thread , trust me . David His signiture regarding the fire , is the shizzle !

This is the guy who makes the killer 1.5" OPT Trannies.

[Guitarjb]

i believe this is a great key to getting the correct delay effect and you describe it perfectly. however, i have 2 questions about your assumptions.

1. if he is using a marshall as a power amp he would get the ducking effect heard in the ISO clips even if he places that echo after the first amp. i've done it and it works just like what you hear in the ISO tracks. if you put it in front of the first amp the ducking effect is more dramatic and in my opinion TOO dramatic.

The second marshall is used for it's clean power. It's not overdeiven, or if it is, only a slight bit to where it isnt noticeable. You are correct, if the second marshall were overdriven, and the echoplexes before it, the echoplexes would duck... BUT, the already overdriven, compressed guitar from the first marshall would render this ducking effect useless due to the complete lack of dynamics from the overdriven guitar/effects/1st marshall. The key to getting a good ducked echo is running a dynamic signal(from a guitar) into an echo, THEN compressing/overdriving it.

2. the univox was used for that 350-ish ms delay that ed always uses? is there a reason why you assume it is not the echoplex?

I think it's the univox because Eddie said he used the univox to get the echo dive at the end of eruption. We know Eddie ran the phase 90 before the first marshall. And if you listen to the echo dive at the end of eruption. At the end when it stops descending and is just looping, the loop is phasing. In order for the loop to be phasing, the echo HAS TO BE before the phaser. So if eddie said that the echo dive is done with the univox echo, the echo before the 1st marshall should be the Univox echo.

This explains my frustration with failing to get a decent echo sound when plugging into the front of the. Thanks for these details.

Which Racksystems clips are you referring to, and what does "ISO" refer to?

Joe

[Kapo_Polenton]

I don't get the re-amp idea of using a 100 watt preamp section and then using the output stage of other 100 watters? Does this mean you take teh equivalent of a line out from a load box for your crnked plexi and run it through the input of another amp that is set clean? What is the advantage of that.. the fact that it breaks up more running through the clean gain stages of the other Marshalls?