Slaving a Plexi Project

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aquilarosso
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by aquilarosso » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:05 am

Today I've been experimenting with using both 8ohm outputs on my 1987 (non MV) and running one to a Dr Z Airbrake and the other to a Palmer PDI-03 (trying both the filtered and unfiltered outs). The Airbrake fed the left side of a 1960a, and the palmer fed a multieffect which I ran in mono to a power amp section of a clean little SS amp, then onto the right side of the cab. It would be better with a stereo wet cab and a dry straight cab perhaps, but it's sounding pretty cool.
I was able to use less attenuation without it being illegally loud, use all of the OT, get some reverb in there and also be able to run from the Palmer to DAW. I think the Palmer sounded better this way too. Overall I think it's an easy way to both slave and attentuate all at the same time and it gives me more control of volume and how much wet EQ'd reverb signal to blend in, although the whole setup needs some refinements.
Here is a pic of the signal flow:
Untitled.jpg
Untitled.jpg (36.41 KiB) Viewed 3848 times
I've never had an original idea in my life, so I bet somebody has done this before. :roll: :lol:

xbearxau

Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by xbearxau » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:23 am

Just thought Id chime in here with some thoughts on slaving. Im currently upto page 22 of this post, so Im not sure what Ive missed yet, but I did throw together the line out/load resistor setup that Mark made a diagram of and I must say its amazing.
Im running my 50 watt cascaded plexi style mutt ---> Rockstah load/line out box ---> analogue delay and reverb pedal ---> front input of my last home built PP 6V6 amp ---> 2x12 Eminence loaded cab. The sound is unbelievable and makes the FX loop in the amp un neccessary. There is something about a slaved amp that has mind blowing distortion, yet clean headroom for days. Id almost describe it as not only a sound but a feeling when you play it. Sweet, fluid...... its just hard to describe, but the first time I got it dialed in I could have just noodled away for hours.
The amp I built and am using for the re amping has a parallel preamp labeled as Body and Detail. I can get a perfect sound by using the Body to get the volume I want and dialling in the sparkle with the Detail control. It has a very low gain preamp, so its perfectly suited to slaving.
Only thing Id like to do now is try the 16 ohm load box/line out in parallel with a 16 ohm reactive load like a Powerbrake or maybe a Weber Mass, and run the amp at 8 ohms. Just to see what difference the Reactive load makes compared to purely resistive. Anyone know if Weber still sells the Mass speaker motors seperately? I looked on their site but couldnt see them.

Im so happy with the results, I just had to chime in. Thanks for a great little circuit Mark!!!!!

jnewlyn
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by jnewlyn » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:33 am

We'd love to hear some clips mate. :wink:
Cheers to the ears.

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xbearxau

Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by xbearxau » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:57 pm

Havent got the facility to record any clips at the moment, but here are some pics of the almost finished unit. Just have to add an aditional heatsink to the resistors.
I dont own anything bigger than a 50 watt amp so the 2 100wat resistors should be fine.

Image

Image

Image

Image

erigm
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by erigm » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:58 am

Looks good man! Nice clean work. :D
erigm

xbearxau

Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by xbearxau » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:18 am

This box sounds unbelievable. Just spent the last 3 hours messing around with a new JTM 45 build and this load box is definately the shit. Forget about fitting an FX loop to your amp, just build one of these and slave through your delays and reverb. You get so much punch and dynamics its great. Theres no way I could run the 45 flat out in the house without one on these.

vh junkie
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by vh junkie » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:04 am

xbearxau wrote: Forget about fitting an FX loop to your amp, just build one of these and slave through your delays and reverb. You get so much punch and dynamics its great.
Exactly! :D
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erigm
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by erigm » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:29 pm

xbearxau wrote:This box sounds unbelievable. Just spent the last 3 hours messing around with a new JTM 45 build and this load box is definately the shit. Forget about fitting an FX loop to your amp, just build one of these and slave through your delays and reverb. You get so much punch and dynamics its great. Theres no way I could run the 45 flat out in the house without one on these.
What did you slave into (what did you use as amp 2)?
erigm

xbearxau

Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by xbearxau » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:33 pm

xbearxau wrote:......................................The amp I built and am using for the re amping has a parallel preamp labeled as Body and Detail. I can get a perfect sound by using the Body to get the volume I want and dialling in the sparkle with the Detail control. It has a very low gain preamp, so its perfectly suited to slaving. Power section is a cathode biased PP 6V6 setup................................

erigm
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by erigm » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:59 am

Cool, thanks. Sorry I missed that.
erigm

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yngwie308
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by yngwie308 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:12 pm

:lol: :lol:
Last edited by yngwie308 on Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vanhalen5150
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by vanhalen5150 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:16 pm

xbearxau wrote:This box sounds unbelievable. Just spent the last 3 hours messing around with a new JTM 45 build and this load box is definately the shit. Forget about fitting an FX loop to your amp, just build one of these and slave through your delays and reverb. You get so much punch and dynamics its great. Theres no way I could run the 45 flat out in the house without one on these.
It does work well. I use the 4 50 watters for my 50 plexi. Nice job.
12000 Metro Kit

MarkCameron
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by MarkCameron » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:39 am

vanhalen5150 wrote:
xbearxau wrote:This box sounds unbelievable. Just spent the last 3 hours messing around with a new JTM 45 build and this load box is definately the shit. Forget about fitting an FX loop to your amp, just build one of these and slave through your delays and reverb. You get so much punch and dynamics its great. Theres no way I could run the 45 flat out in the house without one on these.
It does work well. I use the 4 50 watters for my 50 plexi. Nice job.

Its cool you guys are getting this to work......Ive heard some great clips

Sorry I have not been around to help more.

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stusixtysix
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by stusixtysix » Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:10 pm

Just thought I'd give props to all the toneseekers who have been working on slaving as a path to tonal gratification and post a bit of a synopsis of what I've been mucking around with. Through reading the many many pages of information on this forum I've put myself together a rig from stuff I had laying around in the shed that continues to have me saying "this is sooo cool" every day when I plug in.

Just wanna share my signal chain as of last night:

Guitar (kramer focus POS with an original Floyd/ Duncan '59 and a Vantage Avenger Maple/ ash/ brass bridge and a mismatched coil mongrel PU I made for the VH-type thing) many others including a stock Tele, strat with Kinmans, Stock LP, LP junior, all have something good going on with this rig)

guitar lead of varying reliability

MI Audio Boost n Buff (has an "always-on" FET buffer with footswitchable boost mode) sometimes I'll stick my Phase 90 in between the guitar and the buffer if I'm in a VH mood.

patch cord made from belden 8761

A/B box to Boss tuner

another homemade guitar lead from the finest, er, cable i could find in the shed (thinks its canare mic cable)

beaten-to-heck 1973 Marshall jmp 50W, 1987 model, with Siemens EL34's, run on an autotransformer scavenged from an old Rank TV to drop its mains voltage to about 200 - 210 (I'm on 240 more like 250 at home) Makes about 22-25 watts of power this way, can still push a cab directly pretty loud If I want. Otherwise the amp is stock, set presence 6 bass 4 mid 10 treble 5 volume 6-7, Channel I, channel II turned off. There's still a tad of room for a nice little gain kick when I stomp the boost n buff to boost mode this way and clean or pretty crunchy from the guitar volume knob.

Output selector set to 4 Ohms.

8 Ohm 100W load resistor (2 x 4 Ohm 50W in series) in speaker jack 1. I like the tone and feel of the mismatch.
Speaker jack 2 connects to a homebrew line level box with a reasonable quality audio iso transformer scavenged from an old Flett Public Address mixer amplifier, a switchable resistor pad and a level pot to set how hard I drive stuff downstream.

Roland Space Echo (has a 3-position output level switch used to manipulate final volume as well, set to the middle position most of the time or to Low for late evening practice) output from the line-level box goes into the Instrument input, level control is dimed but I use the line level box pot to optimise/ adjust how the Echo input is driven.

1971 Marshall Super Bass 100 with Siemens EL34's biased cool. Set presence 0-2, bass 5, mid 3-4, treble 0-2, volume I 2-3, volume II 2. Output selector at 16.

Big heavy speaker cable

angled 4x12 with 70's blackback Celestion 25's, 16 Ohm cab.

I've tried the echo-before-first amp (the 50W) and it's a cool sound too, more like EVH's "slaps in the gaps", it's also lots of fun to stick the earplugs in and just run amp 1 straight to a cab... It's definitely more hissy with the Space Echo in front of amp 1, but I'm really digging the echo in between amp 1 and amp 2 for the other, non-vh songs I've been practicing with the rig. I've also done the Space-Echo-Across-Channels, on both amps, and each has a benefit, right now having the Echo in simple series between driven amp and clean-power amp is adding a little edge and compression that I like.

For me I guess the best benefit of the slaving, apart from the flexibility with the echo, is the ability to get a sound that's fun to play and practice on at home in the evenings that 'sounds' big without being 'just loud' and either causing ear fatigue/ damage or pissing off the unwilling audience of other house members and neighbours. It can still be still loud enough to get some feedback and sustain, but not really louder in actual volume to my cranked 2 Watt Valvetone Impact into the same 4x12, although there's a lot more headroom and potential for loudness if required.

Its got to the point where I havent touched the settings apart from delay time/ mix for weeks. I'm actually enjoying just walking in, switching on and playing it instead of tweaking stuff. I'm gonna take this rig to a band practice session this weekend and give it a real test under fire! I really oughta make a clip too...
"...i am a victim of the science age..."

xbearxau

Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by xbearxau » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:06 pm

Ive had a couple of weeks now to play around with this setup and Im loving it SOOOOOO much. stusixtysix I know what you mean about the setup being just right. I haven tweaked it for ages............just walk in flip the switches and start blazing, although Im using my modded JTM45 with a booster in the the front end now instead of the plexi. Never sounded better.

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