Slaving a Plexi Project

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rgalpin
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by rgalpin » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:11 am

Sonically: Good things happen when you slave that I have not been able to achieve with just a single amp with or without an attenuator. There is a compelling POWER and DRIVE that you feel as you're playing and it's not reliant on gain or distortion.

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by Funky Hunky » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:59 pm

Could not agree more. My slave set up does it for me. Same tone any volume. And the bonus of time based effects after the "head" is icing on the cake. The impedance curve is altered. So the sound is different. It reacts differently and it is seemingly a little compresssed. When I first tried it there was the "ah ha.." moment.
Clips:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11391879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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rgalpin
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by rgalpin » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:20 am

agreed! i remember the first time i tried it out at full volume for a soundcheck in a decent size club - JAXX in Springfield, VA - and the DRIVE available when doing single string patterns on the E and A string - a la FYLT or Little Dreamer - or the Funny Money tune we did all the time: Hot On Your Heels intro - anyway, man... monster tone without distortion or gainy dirt - just POWER and headroom with the guitar vol on 5 (but no mud... crystal clear on 5) - then roll it out to 10 for the solo. it's amazing. :drool:

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by rgalpin » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:33 am

This clip is from one night when I was slaving into a Tech21 power amp. The camera/mic was right in front of me so it's a wonderful guitar mix :listen: (camera mic distortion not withstanding!) But it's a good iso on the power and grind coming from the amp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Zb8JUy37o

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Funky Hunky
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by Funky Hunky » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:49 pm

Geat stuff. I have always dug the various Kix incarnations. You and Brian Forsythe know tone. Have you tried a tube power amp or compared it to solid state? I am searching for a solid state power amp that has the same detail and sizzly top end as my tube power amps. I haven't found one yet that works for me. For reference, I've used Mesa 20/20, Mesa 50 Caliber plus power amp return, Marshall effects return and Peavey Classic 60/60 tube power amps all with great success. Solid states I have tried are ADA hybrid power amps with 12AX7s driving Mosfet outputs. Carver, QSC, Yamaha, Peavey PA Amps. Matrix mosfet amps are supposed to do well but are extremely high priced.
Clips:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11391879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by Just Mike » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:13 am

I have a question that I don't think has come up in this thread. When slaving, we're talking about using a dummy load or attenuator. Doesn't this have the same sonic footprint on the line out signal as it does on the attenuated speaker signal? That is; the "attenuator fizziness" that we don't like?
Apparently not based on what I'm reading here, so is this a function of the speaker interacting with the resistive load and it's not carried to the line out? Or is this something we have to compensate for in the slave amp (turning down the treble or maybe using an EQ like a MXR 6 band)?
Does anybody know for sure where Ed used the mxr 6 band in his signal chain?

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by rgorke » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:40 am

Just Mike wrote:I have a question that I don't think has come up in this thread. When slaving, we're talking about using a dummy load or attenuator. Doesn't this have the same sonic footprint on the line out signal as it does on the attenuated speaker signal? That is; the "attenuator fizziness" that we don't like?
Apparently not based on what I'm reading here, so is this a function of the speaker interacting with the resistive load and it's not carried to the line out? Or is this something we have to compensate for in the slave amp (turning down the treble or maybe using an EQ like a MXR 6 band)?
Does anybody know for sure where Ed used the mxr 6 band in his signal chain?
First, the "attenuator fizziness" comes, IMO, from the amp not seeing a reactive load. The better attenuators have a reactive load rather than a purely resistive load. So, the best scenario would be having your first amp loaded with a resistive dummy load then to the second amp. The best slave setups I have heard go directly through a power amp rather than a full amp.

Ed, as far as we know, used the MXR 6 band in front of the amp, before the Echoplex. The MXR seems to also drive whatever goodness we are getting from the Echoplex as well.

also confirming the need for using an instrument level line out rather than a line level. I have used a line level and the signal is really hot.
"If you make a mistake, do it twice and smile and let people think you meant it." Jan Van Halen.

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by rgalpin » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Funky Hunky wrote:Geat stuff. I have always dug the various Kix incarnations. You and Brian Forsythe know tone. Have you tried a tube power amp or compared it to solid state? I am searching for a solid state power amp that has the same detail and sizzly top end as my tube power amps. I haven't found one yet that works for me. For reference, I've used Mesa 20/20, Mesa 50 Caliber plus power amp return, Marshall effects return and Peavey Classic 60/60 tube power amps all with great success. Solid states I have tried are ADA hybrid power amps with 12AX7s driving Mosfet outputs. Carver, QSC, Yamaha, Peavey PA Amps. Matrix mosfet amps are supposed to do well but are extremely high priced.
Hey thanks for the props! My preference is to run into the front of another Marshall 1959 (of various flavors). Turn all the eq pots down to and then add bass/mid/treble/presence sparingly - only enough to add some clarity on top and meat on the bottom. Every amp is different so posting levels would be useless - but usually it takes very little treble and can handle a healthy amount of bass.

I heard about Tech21 amp - advertised as being a great amp for slaving as it is setup for that specific purpose. Works real good when 2 Marshalls aren't an option.

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by Blix » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:11 am

Funky Hunky wrote:Matrix mosfet amps are supposed to do well but are extremely high priced.
A GT1000FX cost half of a Mesa 2:90 and hardly extremely priced at all! Worth every dollar IMO. :)

Super happy with mine and rocks for slaving.

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by guitar007 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:27 pm

rgalpin wrote:
Funky Hunky wrote:Geat stuff. I have always dug the various Kix incarnations. You and Brian Forsythe know tone. Have you tried a tube power amp or compared it to solid state? I am searching for a solid state power amp that has the same detail and sizzly top end as my tube power amps. I haven't found one yet that works for me. For reference, I've used Mesa 20/20, Mesa 50 Caliber plus power amp return, Marshall effects return and Peavey Classic 60/60 tube power amps all with great success. Solid states I have tried are ADA hybrid power amps with 12AX7s driving Mosfet outputs. Carver, QSC, Yamaha, Peavey PA Amps. Matrix mosfet amps are supposed to do well but are extremely high priced.
Hey thanks for the props! My preference is to run into the front of another Marshall 1959 (of various flavors). Turn all the eq pots down to and then add bass/mid/treble/presence sparingly - only enough to add some clarity on top and meat on the bottom. Every amp is different so posting levels would be useless - but usually it takes very little treble and can handle a healthy amount of bass.

I heard about Tech21 amp - advertised as being a great amp for slaving as it is setup for that specific purpose. Works real good when 2 Marshalls aren't an option.
Which Tech 21 amp are you referring to?
~guitar007

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by rgalpin » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:29 pm

Tech 21 Power Engine PE-300 300W Mono Power Amp.

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by JimiJames » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:54 am

rgalpin wrote:"...Turn all the eq pots down to and then add bass/mid/treble/presence sparingly - only enough to add some clarity on top and meat on the bottom..."
:shock:
With the volume dimed, that's exactly what I do with my BF Super Reverb... like a reverse volume ???
Works great for this, controlling the flub or just putting in exactly what the tone needs through the eq pots.
Dialing in using the eq pots with the Volume cranked blends in both at the same time.

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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by vanhalen5150 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:06 am

Blix wrote:
Funky Hunky wrote:Matrix mosfet amps are supposed to do well but are extremely high priced.
A GT1000FX cost half of a Mesa 2:90 and hardly extremely priced at all! Worth every dollar IMO. :)

Super happy with mine and rocks for slaving.
Yeah, I got the GT800. Great piece of equipment.
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by rgorke » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:23 am

Because I am lazy to read through 50 pages....one needs an "instrument level" signal rather than "Line level", right? Which one are folks using? I used what I think is a line level and had to have the pot barely open or the signal was too hot.

Maybe I had the tone controls too high as well? :shrug: :what:
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Re: Slaving a Plexi Project

Post by efraser68 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:50 am

Rog, my HotPlate is set to "Load" and I run the Line Out to send to delay and reverb, then back to the Peavy PA. Are you attempting something similar?
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