Definitive Fair Warning tone thread

[fivecoyote]

Guys -- Let's see if we can nail this. As we all know, the FW tone is different. Darker, meatier, however you want to describe it. I happen to love it. It's been posted here that this is "because" of the Eventide Harmonizer, but after putting in significant hours with the new PitchFactor pedal, I'm pretty confident that's not the only thing going on there. Is it a different pickup, different guitar, different head (doubt it's different speakers?), just different miking, what? Let's have your facts (please back them up if possible) and opinions -- I know you got 'em!

[wjamflan]

When I get home I'll look for the interview, but I think this was the first album Ed said he used the Floyd Rose in the studio. He also said that he had to do some heavy equalization to get his tone. My best guess is that he used the eq for a midboost and also probably cut treble and added bass. The harmonizer sound is what makes me think that So This Is Love? could have fit in on 5150. I think the only difference between them is the heavy midboost and basswood body (?).

[motrock]

Cool man, I have been waiting for someone to start this kind of thread. I have been trying to nail that tone for a while. Next to VH1, that has to be my favorite tone for Van Halen. I realize that he did use the Eventide on that album, but not all the time. He really only used it on some of the solo's, and he did use it on Hear About It Later and Push Comes To Shove. As far as that solo's, you can really hear it on Unchained and One Foot Out The Door. The solo's on those songs specifically you can really hear it. Now, I have heard that Eddie used a Les Paul on some of the stuff, and a Mahogany Strat with Maple neck. But who knows if that's really true or not. My personal opinion is that Fair Warnings guitar rig is pretty much the same as Women and Children First. I think the production changed on the actual recording, causing Fair Warning to sound a little bit darker. Also, Eddie could have switched pickups. I don't know though. I heard that for the first 4 albums Eddie's pickup had a short in one of the coils. Supposedly thats why he got more of the mid boost thing going on. But, you never know! And I wouldn't rule out the MXR 6 Band EQ pushing the amp a little bit!

Notice how the live tone on the Fair Warning tour was a little different then the album:

Unchained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMyJAcHlCGc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hear About It Later
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvK0AA5Q ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So This Is Love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HhMX9qT ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think that he's boosting with the MXR or something. But, I am very interested in hearing what people think.

[45auto]

i always thought he goosed a bit more around 500hz, he stated he thought the early sound was too bright if i recall correctly.

[Krinkle]

Way to go, this is my favorite VH tone, even more than VHI.

Hopefully this thread generates more clips and healthy discussion and less Ed interview in one magazine vs Ed interview in a different magazine vs Rudy vs Robin, etc. It would be nice if we could walk the walk instead of talking the talk. This is not a jab at the above post by the way, just thinking back to other threads.

Rockstah's 2203 clips are pretty close, I would love to hear some clips from him with an Eventide.

Chris Laney has a great clip of HAIL with the new Pitchfactor.

I think Rob could provide some great clips as well, from what I remember most of his stuff is either original or VHI and II.

I still think that ED had his flanger set up in more of a chorus setting and that had something to do with the HAIL tone. Just a guess, mind you, but it would be nice if somebody with a PF and an MXR could try it. Hey Rob, do you have an MXR flanger?

There is definitely a flanger at the end of DM, you can hear the swooshing noise. I originally thought that this was a setting he used on the whole song but from listening more closely, it sounds like he turns it on for the last bunch of chromatic notes and leaves it on.

[monkface]

My favorite sound is the way it growls at exactly one minute into hear about it later! Yowza. It sounds like the speakers are melting or something. Sigh.....

[fivecoyote]

My experience with the PitchFactor is that the MicroPitch can make the sound wider in a more hi-fi sort of way, and in that way give it some thickness (more "width"), but with my rig (Destroyer OR Les Paul OR super strat etc. >> any of varous pedals (GE10, MXR 6, MXR phaser, MXR flanger, "secret pedal" >> plexi replica >> 4 Ipswich greenbacks or 4 G12H30s -- no Variac yet, tho a huge part of Ed's sound apparently) I can't get the FW darkness or that "oomph." I will say that I don't play the head as loud as it will go, but I do have an attenuator and I still can't get there. And Ed presumably played his head full up on every album, so I'm left at the same point: why is this guitar sound so different?

Also, I've been fooling around with micing clips, etc. and while I can get the tone to be darker by moving the mic away from the center of the speaker, it also loses something by doing so. That said, obviously I'm far from Don Landee in mic placement, etc. expertise.

[motrock]

My experience with the PitchFactor is that the MicroPitch can make the sound wider in a more hi-fi sort of way, and in that way give it some thickness (more "width"), but with my rig (Destroyer OR Les Paul OR super strat etc. >> any of varous pedals (GE10, MXR 6, MXR phaser, MXR flanger, "secret pedal" >> plexi replica >> 4 Ipswich greenbacks or 4 G12H30s -- no Variac yet, tho a huge part of Ed's sound apparently) I can't get the FW darkness or that "oomph." I will say that I don't play the head as loud as it will go, but I do have an attenuator and I still can't get there. And Ed presumably played his head full up on every album, so I'm left at the same point: why is this guitar sound so different?

Also, I've been fooling around with micing clips, etc. and while I can get the tone to be darker by moving the mic away from the center of the speaker, it also loses something by doing so. That said, obviously I'm far from Don Landee in mic placement, etc. expertise.

Gotta have the Variac! In my Variplex I have 2 original Sylvania 6CA7s biased up to 50ma. The Variac at 90volts brings the tubes back to a safe level..... but the idea is to lower the heater voltage. Thats where EVHs crunchy brownness comes from! I have done several tests and its most definitely noticeable! Its kind of subtle, but in the big picture... it makes a difference.

[spaceace76]

didn't he switch to those solid state power amps for slaving on FW? H&H800's? maybe this is a big component of the tone?

[motrock]

didn't he switch to those solid state power amps for slaving on FW? H&H800's? maybe this is a big component of the tone?

I am not sure if thats when he started using those. His tone changed a bunch around 1982 on Diver Down. Makes sense that he would start using them around Diver Down... cause the tone did change. Less drive! Makes that slave setup with another Marshall look more accurate for the early tones. The way I look at this is that you have a 100 watt Marshall with ALL ON 10. You slave that in to another Marshall thats adjusted accordingly. If the Volume on the slaved Marshall was on 5.... you would also get the tube breakup from that amp. So what I am saying is that you are getting tube drive from 2 amps.... with maybe a little bit of an MXR EQ. He may not of even need the EQ. When he switched to the H&H Power Amps, he lost the extra tube drive he was getting from the slaved Marshall. This is my educated guess!

Does that make any sense at all? LOL Anyone want to add to it, tear it up, etc? LOL

[spaceace76]

that would make sense. it does sound like he has less drive, and a high wattage power amp like the H&H 800 would have LOTS of headroom. The Diver Down tone is similar in drive, so that fits. Too bad we don't have an H&H to try a slave setup on, good luck finding one of those things

[jnewlyn]

Just a guess here but I'd say the production has more changes going on than the amps/guitars.

[dirtycooter]

Look at CPA using two different kinds of speakers-blended in the end?? Prime example???
I am using these Sheffs on the wet sides and regular greenbacks for the dry-the mixture of the two do make things much different standing in front of the rig-for the better The 75 watt Sheffs are darker but still sound very much like a green to my ears and really BLEND well. Where when I had 2 greenback cabs w/d it just wasn't even the same thing at all seriously. The post amp FX just came apart as the lower wattage greens broke up and didn't mesh well against the dry cab when it came to adding delay and stuff.
The higher wattage sheffs have the same frequency curve response and resonance it seems but don't break up even half as much the lower watt greens do and they seem alot stiffer and hold together at loud volume really well.

I know the sheffs weren't around back then cause they weren't in existence then-but maybe those g12-70's or those g12-65's or something else coulda been in there-hard tellin.

He had to have wanted to chase after a higher wattage speaker in my mind for a reason when he collaborated with PV on the sheffs-but were they the speakers I mentioned above he was aiming at as a starting point when designing these????
Fact is it has been written blatantly Ed worked with PV ALOT on those Sheff speakers-why?????? Thats my question-hearing them and owning them I do see some of their advantages alot over just using all greens across the board in all cabs wet or dry.

I think what was on HAIL is a flanged sound into a post amp delay thats modulated or chorused-so the chorus is only on the delayed signal and it gives alot of that HAIL vibe when I do it this way.
But I feel Fair Warning is just flat out meaner, tighter, and more focused-very punchy and full and angry sounding. My higher output p/u guitars get more of that FW type thing better it seems too.

So many shades of brown really when you look at every record they put out-and I still feel it all was great tones regardless the changes between records. But we do agree there is a difference and to have to pick one tone like VH1 over FW would be very hard when it came down to it if you had to choose only one.
But they really are different sounds yet still brown.
The HH V800 isn't key to the sound no more than any other good quality well built SS PA amp-its just a good clean power amp only and reamps what it is fed-
be it slayer, metallica, country tone or VH brown sound-its completely gotta be neutral. That was the design intention of HH when they built it. Reamp the input signal as closely as possible.
Using this crown and to change the whole tonal direction of my rig-all I have to do is change the head and cabs but still keep all my w/d/w setup and post amp FX all the same pretty much and thats it.

[motrock]

I am going to do a test with my greenbacks and scumback h75s. I am betting that putting both of those cabs together will sound really cool!

I really agree, from VH1 to Fair Warning... its all good. Since this thread has started I have gone back and listened to VHII, Women and Children First, and Fair Warning. That includes the live bootlegs. To my ears, on the live tones, they are all very close to being the same...other then the VHII tour doesn't appear to be boosted. I think WACF and Fair Warning have an EQ or something driving it. Fair Warning album in particular, I feel was recorded with a couple of different guitars. I have heard that some of the rhythms were done with a Gibson SG or Les Paul, some of it was done using a Mahogany Strat with maple neck, and then of course Frankenstein. There really isn't a whole lot of difference between the Fair Warning Tour and WACF Tours. Slight variations here and there... but for the most part the same. That is, according to the bootlegs I have listened too. I know that Eddie did have a few different guitars on the WACF and FW Tours. The black and white "Unchained" guitar in the above video for instance, and the funky explorer guitar that was on the WACF tours. I think Eddie had different kinds of pickups in those guitars. I noticed some photo's of Eddie's Frankenstein with a cream colored pickup, then a black one. So, who knows. The pickup could have been anything. Ok, I am rambling. Time to go to bed!

[cary chilton]

Let me some it up. Ed> guitar> Plexi >GE-10. Done!