Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

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leadguy
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Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

Post by leadguy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:24 am

Bob Bradshaw Interviews

When we were developing that whole thing, we used load resistors. Load resistors were padding the signal down and loading the amplifier [so it could] act as a pre-amp. We went that way for the longest time. The Boogies were some of the first amps that we started doing that with. They were much more forgiving (having a load resistor on them) than, say, Marshall amps. As soon as we put a speaker on the amplifier it was like night and day: the amps were breathing properly. The Marshalls were the most sensitive to that. So I thought "Okay, I'll put a 16-Ohm cabinet on my Marshall amp." Suddenly people were carrying around these [closed] boxes with a speaker in them. Those are the load boxes so you can have a reactive load. When I first did Van Halen's rig, I built him a load box that would allow him to switch different heads into the same bank of load resistors. For years – starting with the 5150 tour on through OU812 – I realized that we shouldn't have this load resistor on his Marshall amp, we should have a speaker. I was all excited to hip him to this revelation, you know! And I got up there, man, (they were in rehearsals) and said, "Look at this Ed, you've got to have a speaker on there!" (I wasn't even talking about incorporating that dry speaker into the overall sound, I was just talking about hooking up a speaker and burying the thing so that it is just a reactive load.) He heard it and he just went, "Nope, it ain't happening." I was crushed, man. He was like, "I didn't like it. It didn't work well with my wireless." I was just like, "What are you talking about, are you nuts? You ****ing idiot, I can't believe you're saying this." He went back out on tour with his normal load-resistor thing. It took another year or so before we incorporated the speaker. Finally, somehow, it clicked with him. That's when we started thinking, "Why are we burying the speaker?" Then he went to the [left wet - center dry - right wet] configuration." The main thing is to preserve the pure tone of amp straight into speaker, whilst having (mostly time based stereo) effects at the same time. some people also run mono wet/dry setups. The key thing is to preserve the tone of your amp reacting a cab like it would if you had just a amphead and a cab. Most people run their pedal effects OD/fuzz/octafuzz/wah etc. before the amp so those will affect both the dry and wet cabs.

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I can remember you were in the magazines all over the place for a while.

This business is all about what's hot and what's new, bla bla bla you know. But yeah,I got my name going out there with Rocktron and along with Buzz Feiten comes Mike Landau, from him comes Steve Lukather, from Steve comes Ed Van Halen, from Ed comes Steve Vai, it's all word of mouth. And in between there were many, many others. Studio/session guys to …Poison for example.

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Ed's 1986 Bob Bradshaw slaving details published in a guitar magazine in 1986.

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http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 0&p=298739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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David Friedman

Well here is what i was told by Rudy Leiren his long time tech. This was just last week. His setup was flanger phaser echoplex amp. His main 100 watt was used on everything. The bias was turned all the way up and the variac was set to 91v. into only 1 cab. There is a pic of the early days with a 50 watt and a vox. He told me the 50 was a back up to the 100 and the vox was a last ditch back up. He often borrowed amps for his back ups. In fact he told me a story that at a party they were playing ed blew a fuse in his main amp and did not have a backup and had to rum home to get a fuse while the band was playing. After this he always made sure he had a backup. Now Rudy said the eq pedal was used only for certain guitars or sometimes when he used rental gear that sounded bad. Also the univox echo was patched in by hand for eruption only and then was taken out of the chain after. Later there was another cab on Mike side that was driven from another amp they used a splitter to do this. As time went on more cabs where used and so where more amps. The amps would only drive one cab though. Now he did say ed was always trying shit but would always come back to this set up. This info follows everything ed has ever said to me personally. Also when 84 hit he changed his set up to H&H power amps and some different effects etc. He still used a cab off the head though no load resister. The Load resister came for the 5150 tour.

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The slaving system was only for live use.

Bob Bradshaw was not involved until 1985/1986 with the 5150 tour and around 1984 it was Rudy doing the cab as a load with the H&H power amps and also the switching was by Flag systems.

This all got replaced by the Bob Bradshaw load resistor and H&H's and the Bob Bradshaw switching system, around 1985/1986.

Image

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Last edited by leadguy on Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:02 am, edited 6 times in total.
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dirtycooter
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Re: Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

Post by dirtycooter » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:50 pm

That first huge paragraph I seen back in 97-98 on another website and is the one I was talking about before where bradshaw didn't get why Ed wasn't going for the load/ active speaker thing at first.
As for the rest of it and that first pargraph with Bob-who really knows-but at some point Bob has had to leak some stuff or info-he just had to at some point you know?

leadguy
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Re: Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

Post by leadguy » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:28 am

Bob Bradshaw seems to have worked on switching amp systems and it looks like Ed ended up with him because of word of mouth from other players using Bob's system.

Some people say that the worst thing that happened for Ed's tone was hooking up with Bob Bradshaw.

Bob is a tech to the stars and I think he did a switching amp system for Slash as well.

Talking about Slash, the Appetite album was apparently done with a daisy chained bi-amp multiple amp system and if Rudy and Ed were using the same bi-amp system around 1977 then that is going to be a hard tone to cop because bi-amp systems are a combination amp tone system and combining amps gives different tones depending on the individual amp tones and also things like how the effects are hooked up with the multiple amps. The amps can be hooked up for a wet/dry stereo system and also used with varying levels of shared effects between amp 1 and amp 2 like in panning and amp1 and amp 2 can be set for a clean/gain mix as well and also have different EQ's, there are a lot of possibilities just like there are in a wet slaved/dry non slaved system.

Just say that Ed had some sort of cascade mod on amp 1 and amp 2 didn't and amp 1 and amp 2 had different power tubes or that amp 2 was not a Marshall or that amp 2 was cleanish and amp 1 wasn't or that the Echoplex(s) and maybe other effects were split between amp 1 and amp 2 etc etc all of these things would affect the final combination tone and it's hard to cop exactly.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

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Re: Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

Post by StuntDouble » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:50 am

I've gotta agree with Bob on resistive vs reactive loads. I spent about an hour tonight playing through a slave setup going through a transformer isolated line out box into the 2nd amp setup with a power amp in. The best sound I got was using a 4x12 and a 16ohm 300 watt resistor on the 1st amp and tapping the signal from the transformer isolated line out box and then feeding the signal into the 2nd amp with it running into the other 4x12. It sounded flater and less lively when I used just the 16 ohm resistor on the first amp and fed both 4x12s from the 2nd amp.

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Re: Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

Post by Star*Guitar » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:54 am

StuntDouble wrote:I've gotta agree with Bob on resistive vs reactive loads. I spent about an hour tonight playing through a slave setup going through a transformer isolated line out box into the 2nd amp setup with a power amp in. The best sound I got was using a 4x12 and a 16ohm 300 watt resistor on the 1st amp and tapping the signal from the transformer isolated line out box and then feeding the signal into the 2nd amp with it running into the other 4x12. It sounded flater and less lively when I used just the 16 ohm resistor on the first amp and fed both 4x12s from the 2nd amp.
I am not sure I understand you. According to Bob, He liked the speaker load (reactive load) more then a resistor load. I agree with that. For example I think the Weber Mass attenuator is a good example of obtained a better tone vs the sizzle or buzzy tone of a resistive load.

A lot here are slaving using a resistive load. No one has tried it that I know of with a reactive load. I use to have a set up like that but my power amp blew up...LOL Going back to it soon. I am rebuilding another power amp now and hope to get it going soon.

Anyway I digress, your post isn't clear to me, You talk about a resistive load, and compare it to a set up that sounds resistive also. Maybe I am reading it wrong.
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Re: Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

Post by StuntDouble » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:06 pm

Sorry, let me clarify. I ran a 16ohm 4x12 cab in parallel with a 16 ohm 300 watt resistor out of the 8 ohm outputs of the 1st amp; the 300 watt resistor was just used to take some strain off of the 1st cab since I was running my amp wide open, but I used my transformer isolated lineout between the 1st amp and the 4x12 and fed the lineout through a Univox into a Boss GE-10 and then into the power amp in of the 2nd amp. I thought this sounded better than just loading down the 1st amp with the resistor plugged into the 16 ohm speaker out and hooking up both cabs to the 2nd amp.

The sound I got out of the slaved amp was a little brighter with more headroom. I used my cab with the JBL D120 on the 1st amp as it seemed to give it a little headroom and sizzle that the 2nd amp didn't need. The sound I got was very open and clear, and the feel was just spot on for VH1.

My signal chain was EP-3 pre(maxed out), MXR 6 band(frown curve), Amp1 (4x12-JBL), TILO Box to Univox, Boss GE-10(slight smile curve), (power amp-in) Amp2-4x12.

I tried it with and without the Univox, and I don't care that much for the Univox unless I'm slamming the front-end of it with my EP-3 pedal and boosting the signal coming out of it with an EQ. I'm going to expirement using my H&K Replex today instead.

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Re: Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

Post by Star*Guitar » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:36 pm

Cool...that makes sense. So unlike what Bob was saying, you are not using a reactive load at all. I bet you set up sounds killer. Would love to hear the results.
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Re: Bob Bradshaw and Slaving

Post by StuntDouble » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:46 pm

Star*Guitar wrote:Cool...that makes sense. So unlike what Bob was saying, you are not using a reactive load at all. I bet you set up sounds killer. Would love to hear the results.
well, I guess I'm using a combination of both. The lineout is being tapped b/w the 1st amp and 4x12. The resistor is just there cause I don't wanna blow any of my Rola GB's...that would suck. :?

Help's bring the volume of the 1st cab down a little too.

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