Ed's Knob

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vh junkie
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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by vh junkie » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:52 pm

Hey Mark!

Good to see you back! Are we talking about the pics with the smaller blue coupling cap?
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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by jp0971 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:16 pm

spaceace76 wrote:that's from a collection of photos of an amp that is supposedly a clone of Ed's #1. not meant to be THE amp. I hope Mark can dig up those photos, we've all been dying to see the rest of them
Same spec you mean? It looks like a '69-ish super lead with chassis mount caps, nothing too out of the ordinary I don't think.

And I have three pics saved of 'the' amp which I found in an old thread on here a while back (the one with various caps changed..blue coupling cap.. a large black cap on V2.. and also a picture of the outside of the chassis which shows the screw).

I'll post them if it's alright with Mark? I'm not sure if they're still on here....I can't find them anywhere.
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spaceace76
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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by spaceace76 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:11 am

jp0971 wrote: Same spec you mean? It looks like a '69-ish super lead with chassis mount caps, nothing too out of the ordinary I don't think.
I didn't post them originally. the site they came from claimed they were photos of an amp (don't remember if Ed himself owned it or whatever) that was the same spec as Ed's #1. It clashes with other examples we've seen though, like the "touring amp".

However, I know the 3 MC pictures you're referring to. Here they are:

http://fraqjw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... %20001.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://fraqjw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... %20006.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://fraqjw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p ... %20014.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

though heavily edited the photos show several similarities with the amp that appears in the VH2 studio pictures. Looks like Ed added an extra tube at some point too. The only problem with these photos, again, is that they show how the amp is today, not necessarily it's 1978 specs. Mark, we all appreciate your contributions here, and it would be great to discuss the current specs of the amp if you've got more pictures. I'm sure I've come off as a dick in the thread here, and that wasn't my intent. We're just looking for empirical evidence on Ed's gear. We get enough wild speculation and BS from Ed and others that when handed something that even begins to look accurate, it comes under great scrutiny. I hope you continue to contribute your time to this great forum.

cary chilton

Re: Ed's Knob

Post by cary chilton » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:51 am

jds22 wrote:Ed's knob is none of my business.
+1

leadguy
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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by leadguy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:37 am

Image

No wonder he wouldn't talk to Circus Magazine after this.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by beaulieu » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:12 am

spaceace76 Why would you say looks like ED had an extra pre-amp tube at one time? Cause of the extra hole?? They all have that for Marshall used the same chassis for the Tremolo amps,PA heads. They used 4 pre-amp tubes.
As for going in circles..I read where someone mentioned this.(Going in circles) This is all I ever get out of reading any of this VH stuff. People posting and re-posting the same old info. Some of it makes sense but alot of it dosen't. As for ED actually remembering how he ran something,Exactly,30 years ago.Alot of time rather them him lying he probally dosent remember alot of it. For any of you guys that are always tweaking your amps.Unless you wrote it down in a book I ask.. can you tell me the spec your amp was a year and a half ago?If ones always messing with a different set-up,and amp caps and res values I really don't think one could remeber what it was. I know I couldn't.We all know what Ed used! his amp,effects&speakers.But everone still tries to find some "missing link."Just don't understand why people can't be satisified with ED used his old Marshall,Mxr fx's,Echoplex and how VH 1 was recorded and take that is "how it was done."?? I really don't think theres a "secret button" or something anyones going to find that will end any of this.I do enjoy reading most of this stuff but sometimes have to wonder Why?? No matter what anyone ever comes up with its still not going to be enough or close enough!If it is close enough then what?? Going to sit around and play old VH songs all day??
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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by leadguy » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:23 am

beaulieu wrote:But everone still tries to find some "missing link."Just don't understand why people can't be satisified with ED used his old Marshall,Mxr fx's,Echoplex and how VH 1 was recorded and take that is "how it was done."?? I really don't think theres a "secret button" or something anyones going to find that will end any of this.I do enjoy reading most of this stuff but sometimes have to wonder Why?? No matter what anyone ever comes up with its still not going to be enough or close enough!If it is close enough then what?? Going to sit around and play old VH songs all day??
You took the words right out of my mouth.

I'ts only Rock and Roll.

Sometimes when I have some free time I might try to sift through some of the amazing amount of BS about Ed's early sound but I don't take it that seriously and I think I've gone as far as I can go with it.

The more I did it, the more the chunks of BS ended up dropping away and I was just left with Ed, a Humbucker ceramic/alnico Strat and a Destroyer, a Flanger, a Phaser, 2 Echoplexes, an optional Univox and a Marshall(s).

Just a simple rig with spacy time based effects.

Maybe a cascade mod but just about anyone can do that.

The early boots and even the GH iso's show nothing special to me gearwise.

I can understand an armchair Ed fan that just can't play guitar very well or handle gear setups making BS up about his idol but experienced guitarists who don't have Ed as their idol should be able to pick out that the only thing really different about Ed's early sound compared to other well known guitarists around at that time is Ed himself and how he used just basic effects in sync with his playing.

Just say Ed had a cascade mod and used a MXR and Flanger/Phaser/Echoplexes on VH1 with a 2 amp slaved setup, well try it and see if it is.

Just say Ed didn't have a cascade mod and used a MXR and Flanger/Phaser/Echoplexes on VH1 with a 1 amp setup, well try it and see if it is.

etc etc

There are only a few basic gear combos to try and one is going to be near the one Ed used.

There is no way to get close to Ed's early tone without using what we know he used ie Script type MXR Phaser, MXR Flanger, 2 Echoplexes, a loud cranked Plexi based amp with a Variac/rebias at 90v with everything on 10 and a optional MXR EQ and edgy sounding pickups.

Ed would have had a ball with just the above gear that we know he used.
What Ed actually used might differ slightly from the above gear but I'd say it's in the ballpark and should be enough for anyone trying to cop Ed's early tone.

There are studio recording variables that no one is going to get right.

The thing is that peoples tone opinions can be very different.

If David Gilmour played through Ed's early rig he would sound like duhhhh! David Gilmour and he'd probably have a good time with all of Ed's time based effects and hardly anyone would talk about a magical rig tone.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by spaceace76 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:09 pm

beaulieu wrote:spaceace76 Why would you say looks like ED had an extra pre-amp tube at one time? Cause of the extra hole?? They all have that for Marshall used the same chassis for the Tremolo amps,PA heads. They used 4 pre-amp tubes.
from the VH2 studio pics it looks like his chassis doesn't have that space for the extra tube, which i thought was strange too since i thought all the lead/bass/trem/pa heads had the same chassis. i noticed the hole in the mark cameron photos so i pointed it out.
beaulieu wrote:Just don't understand why people can't be satisified with ED used his old Marshall,Mxr fx's,Echoplex and how VH 1 was recorded and take that is "how it was done."?? I really don't think theres a "secret button" or something anyones going to find that will end any of this.I do enjoy reading most of this stuff but sometimes have to wonder Why?? No matter what anyone ever comes up with its still not going to be enough or close enough!If it is close enough then what?? Going to sit around and play old VH songs all day??
i don't either. i understand the obsession for wanting that sound, but i'm not sure why there has to be some weird secret. there are definable, independently verifiable facts about Ed's early rig, and it's become very tiring to see the same speculation pop up over and over. Ed's a guitar player just like us, and he's never satisfied. Does anyone here think that they'll be satisfied once they actually achieve the tone? Where is there to go from there? Once you master the playing and tone, then you've got to find something else to occupy your time with, the thrill of the chase is gone. So maybe people need to believe in something shrouded in mystery to keep their pursuit of sound going, to verify that they're missing some piece of the equation and have to continue.

I don't know. I enjoy the search but I don't enjoy the conjecture and secret custom fuzz pedals or whatever

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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by rgorke » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:59 am

leadguy wrote:
beaulieu wrote:But everone still tries to find some "missing link."Just don't understand why people can't be satisified with ED used his old Marshall,Mxr fx's,Echoplex and how VH 1 was recorded and take that is "how it was done."?? I really don't think theres a "secret button" or something anyones going to find that will end any of this.I do enjoy reading most of this stuff but sometimes have to wonder Why?? No matter what anyone ever comes up with its still not going to be enough or close enough!If it is close enough then what?? Going to sit around and play old VH songs all day??
You took the words right out of my mouth.

I'ts only Rock and Roll.

Sometimes when I have some free time I might try to sift through some of the amazing amount of BS about Ed's early sound but I don't take it that seriously and I think I've gone as far as I can go with it.

The more I did it, the more the chunks of BS ended up dropping away and I was just left with Ed, a Humbucker ceramic/alnico Strat and a Destroyer, a Flanger, a Phaser, 2 Echoplexes, an optional Univox and a Marshall(s).

Just a simple rig with spacy time based effects.

Maybe a cascade mod but just about anyone can do that.

The early boots and even the GH iso's show nothing special to me gearwise.

I can understand an armchair Ed fan that just can't play guitar very well or handle gear setups making BS up about his idol but experienced guitarists who don't have Ed as their idol should be able to pick out that the only thing really different about Ed's early sound compared to other well known guitarists around at that time is Ed himself and how he used just basic effects in sync with his playing.

Just say Ed had a cascade mod and used a MXR and Flanger/Phaser/Echoplexes on VH1 with a 2 amp slaved setup, well try it and see if it is.

Just say Ed didn't have a cascade mod and used a MXR and Flanger/Phaser/Echoplexes on VH1 with a 1 amp setup, well try it and see if it is.

etc etc

There are only a few basic gear combos to try and one is going to be near the one Ed used.

There is no way to get close to Ed's early tone without using what we know he used ie Script type MXR Phaser, MXR Flanger, 2 Echoplexes, a loud cranked Plexi based amp with a Variac/rebias at 90v with everything on 10 and a optional MXR EQ and edgy sounding pickups.

Ed would have had a ball with just the above gear that we know he used.
What Ed actually used might differ slightly from the above gear but I'd say it's in the ballpark and should be enough for anyone trying to cop Ed's early tone.

There are studio recording variables that no one is going to get right.

The thing is that peoples tone opinions can be very different.

If David Gilmour played through Ed's early rig he would sound like duhhhh! David Gilmour and he'd probably have a good time with all of Ed's time based effects and hardly anyone would talk about a magical rig tone.
I think many people believe that no one could be THAT good and sound THAT way using just basic gear. They therefore are convinced that there must be some "secret" and if they find that "secret" they can sound just like Ed.
"If you make a mistake, do it twice and smile and let people think you meant it." Jan Van Halen.

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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by leadguy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:00 am

As long as someone slaves or some other stupid thing then there is no need for years of practice and years of playing to drunks in clubs or having the balls to do your own thing and not to deviate from it.

All that's needed is a few tricks.

Ed played a lot of different gear, like in 1977 he's using 3 different pickups at various times and different Strat bodies and after 1977 he never stops trying other gear and ends up at Wolfgang's etc so he's never been married to one set of gear anyway and Ed and his style is independent of any gear.

All gear can do is give a certain tone and feel which the player either likes or dislikes and the rest is up to the player and exact tonal definition is just about impossible as one persons great tone is another persons not so great tone.

Ed's tone is for Ed's style.
Ed wanted to play like that, make it zoom as he said and a zoomin tone goes hand in hand with Ed's style so a lot of spacy effects with tube distortion is it.
If Ed wanted to play a Rockabilly style then his tonal ideas would be different.

If I have smaller hands then Ed then I might not like the Frankys Maple neck because I am not fukin Ed.

The way Ed bends strings in microtone intervals coming from the blues and the way he attacks the strings with his right hand and his inbuilt fraction of a second timing etc etc can't be copied exactly because there are too many variables but some can get nearer than others if that's what they want to do but there is only one player that can do it 100% and that's Ed.

Same goes for any other distinctive player on any instrument.

I can list distinctive sax players that have other sax players trying to cop their style and tone but these other sax players never get there.

It's ok to have Ed or whoever as an influence but to just stay with copping Ed's style and tone is extremely limiting.

The worst thing about trying to cop someone else's tone and style is succeeding, and then what happens.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by spaceace76 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:52 pm

leadguy wrote:The worst thing about trying to cop someone else's tone and style is succeeding, and then what happens.
that's exactly what i was trying to say, but stated more succinctly. :D

For myself, I study Ed's gear and playing because that's what I'm into. If you look into his style and his influences, you can get an interesting picture of how he built up his ideas, and use that knowledge on your own set of influences to build up your own style. The same goes for his setup. Every rig is different, and a well developed one will suit the player's needs from a utilitarian standpoint as well as a sonic standpoint. If you look at what he was using, you can try to paint a picture of how and why certain things were used. Then apply these ideas to your own rig, or develop new ideas based on your needs. It's what people have done for centuries, passing down the knowledge of those that came before. But because in our situation, the people that came before us are rich and inaccessible to the average person, we can't really study under them, only study their released material and pour over the few photos and documentation available. It's kind of unfortunate, really. Many of the things Ed learned may not be passed on to anyone else. His son is a pretty good player though, maybe he's gotten all the lessons :lol:

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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by vanhalen5150 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:02 pm

For me it's the simplicity of Ed's setup. How many paths does one go down only to keep coming full circle to just standard stock gear. Yeah, there a few tricks. No vodoo though.
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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by leadguy » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:33 am

Like everyone that plays something of their own, Ed has a lot of bits and pieces from elsewhere mixed in with his own take on things and everybody has their own take on how things should go.

Ed can play Rockabilly licks like on Ice Cream man. He didn't just play them one day, he worked some Rockabilly licks out and has them ready if he ever wants to use them.

If Ed was obsessed with just one guitar idol that he wanted to play like then he would never venture out into working out some Rockabilly or Flamenco or Classical licks that end up expanding his style.

He's got Flamenco and Classical/Jimmy Page hammer ons in Eruption etc etc

Angus has Chuck Berry licks and Jimmy Page and Kossoff and other blues players in his mix plus Angus's take on how it should all go.

If I just have Angus as my idol and just want to play like him then if I ever try to do my own thing all I've really got is Angus's old ideas and not much else.
I can't start a solo like Angus would and then throw in a Chet Atkins thing because I don't know any of that because all I know are Angus's old licks.

Elliot Easton is a master at this as he'll play a straight ahead blues scale and then out of nowhere a Roy Buchannan type lick takes the solo in another direction like at the end of the Just What I Needed solo so he gets out of the just sounding boring using the blues scale thing and Slash with his Harmonic Minor/Blues Scale switch at the end of Sweet Child which is a Lynyrd Skynyrd type of song and could easily have just had a boring country scale solo instead of the Harmonic Minor/Blues Scale switch.

Just take Angus's solo on Highway to Hell, it starts off as just a Chuck Berry lick.

Take Baby Please Don't Go from 1974 and Angus's Jimmy Page like hammer ons across the strings using open strings which is a bit Ed like.
We all know where it came from, Jimmy Page who got it from Les Paul who got it off etc etc , but Angus puts it in a place in the song that fits and it works and it's a great little symmetrical hammer on pattern across the strings.

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John Lennon and Paul McCartney based a lot of their songs on other songs but twisted them around with their own take on things like Lady Madonna is based on a Fats Domino piano based tune.

Sting took the old 50s chords http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50s_progression" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and puts his darker spin on them for Every Breathe You Take

etc etc
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by ROCK€ » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:00 pm

leadguy wrote: Maybe a cascade mod but just about anyone can do that.
Guitar World, January 1981:
Ed: "I don't use any kind of preamp distortion - I go for total tube distortion."

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Re: Ed's Knob

Post by leadguy » Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:25 am

Maybe a cascade mod but I personally don't think it's needed but some do.

Ed's not going straight into the amp. There is a FET buffer just before the amp and it's a high impedance buffer and the frequencies coming out the other side of the buffer hit the amp in a different way than if there were no FET buffer. The FET buffer doesn't have to have much gain or any gain to do this.

If a FET buffer is used at the end of the chain right before the amp and the amp is variaced down to 90v and the amp is dimed then there is probably no need for a cascade mod IMO.

And no Plexi is really identical to another as there are too many variables but most Plexis fall within a common sort of gain but there will be exceptions of Plexis with very poor gain and Plexis with very good gain as compared to the usual Plexi gain.

There is the power supply section, the preamp section, the phase invertor section and the power section and all can vary somewhat due to Marshalls designs and components.
And I hate to burst you guys bubble on the EVH amp on the 1st album, but this will make some of you cry. A local player named Dave here in Torrance sold Ed his 100w amp for VH1. It was a plain old stock 68 Plexi, Ed came over to try it out, he ran his pedals in front of the amp with Franky. He brought over just a couple of pedals, the MXR flanger/phase 90 (whatever the hell it's called), a Boss OD pedal, and he forgot the other one. This is around 1977, according to Dave.

Not sure when VH1 came out I knew I was living in Texas at the time, moved back to Cali in late 78. I know the cover band I was in at the time was rehearsing "Running with the Devil" to do in our set.

Ed tried the amp out through an old basketweave cab that Dave had. Ed wanted to buy that, too, Dave wouldn't sell it. He recalls it had G12M's in it.

So the basic Ed rig is:

Franky, rewound PAF
68 100w plexi, stock
His pedals
Marshall basketweave cabs w/G12M's.

Basically your whole late 60's Marshall stack or 1/2 stack, pedals, Franky and Ed's fingers.
About Ed's supposed number 1 amp with the knob at the back.

Here are some photos from 1976/1977 and I can't seem to see the supposed number 1 amp with the knob at the back.

http://www.musikfoto.com/rockpics.php?t ... an%20Halen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The photos are from 2 different gigs probably late 1976 for the top photos and early 1977 for the bottom photos.

In the top photos Ed seems to be just using one standard Marshall looking head.

In the bottom photos he's got the wooden Plexi as well probably as a back up.

But the supposed number 1 amp seems to be in this May 27-29 1977 photo.

Image

Image

So maybe Ed did get the supposed number 1 amp with the knob at the back sometime in 1977.

There are photos of the supposed number 1 amp with the knob at the back from the Japan 1978 tour and then the VHII studio photo.
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

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