VH 10 June 1977 boot and Ed's gear

[EJSLPlexi]

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[Tone Slinger]

I was listening to some of the old bootlegs along with the Warner demo's and noticed that when Ed rolled back the volume on his strat that it cleans up ( 2 gain stage plexi will clean up regardless of the pickup), BUT, still has a raspy type haze to it. Compare that to the boots from later (rewound paf )on and his sound cleans up better on the guitars volume.
This would obviously lend weight to the Zebra as being a MM, and more than likely a 1300. There was a thread a few years back where Leadguy declared the zebra a MM. He noted two or three reasons why by its appearance.

[Strat78]

I don't know, the zebra in the black Franky looks like it has those little holes unlike the MM's that don't. Who ells was making zebra pickups back then. My JB from 79 is a zebra. One thing I do know is that at least on the first album you can hear the strings bottoming out on the pickup in both the strat and the Destroyer. As much as I love the aggression of Ceramics, I don't think it would be possible for the pickup to be that close to the strings with a powerful ceramic mag.

[EJSLPlexi]

I don't know, the zebra in the black Franky looks like it has those little holes unlike the MM's that don't. Who ells was making zebra pickups back then. My JB from 79 is a zebra. One thing I do know is that at least on the first album you can hear the strings bottoming out on the pickup in both the strat and the Destroyer. As much as I love the aggression of Ceramics, I don't think it would be possible for the pickup to be that close to the strings with a powerful ceramic mag.

Strat 78 both the JB and custom were sold in zebra back then(1977-78) but also eddie may have taken a zebra Gibson PAF to duncan to have rewound to the customs spec.
I set my custom 2mm's from the strings and when i play aggressively the string hits the pickup creating that "chirp" on the polepiece like on VH I.
the zebra in the black strat jenny lens is not a Mighty mite
if you zoom the pic of eddie playing the bare strat you can see screw poles on the black coil

[EJSLPlexi]

I was listening to some of the old bootlegs along with the Warner demo's and noticed that when Ed rolled back the volume on his strat that it cleans up ( 2 gain stage plexi will clean up regardless of the pickup), BUT, still has a raspy type haze to it. Compare that to the boots from later (rewound paf )on and his sound cleans up better on the guitars volume.
This would obviously lend weight to the Zebra as being a MM, and more than likely a 1300. There was a thread a few years back where Leadguy declared the zebra a MM. He noted two or three reasons why by its appearance.

Yeah looks like he did use the 78 on VH I afterall read next post.

[EJSLPlexi]

OK i did some intensive diggin and found this
http://youtu.be/Q3QfJbnQDB8?t=4m42s
freeze the clip at 4:42
what we see is the pu that was made for eddie by seymour and i stand corrected it is NOT the custom but does appear to be the duncan EVH(now called the 78 for legal reasons)
if you look at the pickup it has the "seymourized" sticker like my old 1978 custom but also had the VH sticker.
and doug tells that it is a real PAF that was rewound for eddie(prototype of the 78 or EVH duncan)
and i know for a fact that this pickup is from before 1979 because seymour stopped using the oval "seymourized" sticker on his pu's after 1978.
I still dont know what the zebra pu is but the double black is the duncan 78.

[Strat78]

There is one early pic that shows the black wearing off of a bobbin on one of Ed's humbuckers. I think it was Frankenstraat that pointed it out (too bad he went to the dark side, he had a good eye). So, perhaps the double black was the zebra originally.

[EJSLPlexi]

There is one early pic that shows the black wearing off of a bobbin on one of Ed's humbuckers. I think it was Frankenstraat that pointed it out (too bad he went to the dark side, he had a good eye). So, perhaps the double black was the zebra originally.

would love to see that pic and i can see eddie doing that when the strat got the makeover to black with stripes.
A all black p'u looks much better than a zebra in the B/W strat which was the best looking guitar he ever used,
when he butchered it to the red/white/black it no longer mattered how the pu looked
that was the fugliest guitar ever and i will never understand why he did that! A lot of guys love that guitar but i always hated it!
he claimed companies were cloning the B/W but all i ever saw was the BEE being cloned.

[rgorke]

I'd say VH1 is more the Duncan Custom and Vh2 is the '78 model.

Why not Roger....

Having said that, does it really matter if we can prove one way or the other.

If it doesn't matter, a whole lot of people have gone through a whole lot of of trouble to call Ed and everyone else who says re-wound PAF liars, etc.

Determining or arguing about what pickup exactly was in Sunset #1, we will never know.

Only if you don't believe Ed....

Why not what? I'm confused. Are you saying that 1) Ed used a stock PAF, 2) Ed used a "rewound PAF" to 9 ish K -- Duncan '78, or 3) the PAF was rewound to 13k as a Duncan Custom.

I think any of those would fit into exactly what Ed said. I think all of those could get one to Vh1 or Vh2 tone depending on use or lack of use of an EQ. I believe the TT thinks he is remembering things the way he describes them. Ed also said he destroyed PAFs wax potting them. Did he destroy one that Seymour rewound? Or stock.

[Strat78]

EJSLplexi, if memory serves, you have a couple of original PAF's, it would be cool to hear one in this application. I have some old 70's Duncan paf copies, I'll give one a try this week again. I also have the 78 that would be fun to brake out, might put a pickup cover on it and see if that gets the Destroyer more in the zone. Still intrigued by the #1400 at this point. Just like Ralle's experience, they are harder to play, but the tone is just ferocious!

[EJSLPlexi]

EJSLplexi, if memory serves, you have a couple of original PAF's, it would be cool to hear one in this application. I have some old 70's Duncan paf copies, I'll give one a try this week again. I also have the 78 that would be fun to brake out, might put a pickup cover on it and see if that gets the Destroyer more in the zone. Still intrigued by the #1400 at this point. Just like Ralle's experience, they are harder to play, but the tone is just ferocious!

I do own two original PAF's a 1961 and a 1958, the '61 has a alnico 5(by 1960 gibson was using just A5) and the '58 has a A2
this '58 PAF is so aged it barely has any magnetic pull. the duncan antiquity PAF is like this and almost sound the same.t
They sound amazing through a marshall but lack the aggressive drive the hotter pu's have. sounds more like a great classic rock tone if you know what i mean?
I also have the 78 and when it is set close to the strings and used with the other outboard gear(EQ,EP3)
it is really close to VH I.
I will do my best to get clips posted of all of these.
About the 1400, i know what you mean i just bought one from Roger and it is awesome.
has more of the power than a PAF but the tone is much more clear and like you said "ferocious"
It "could be" what he used for VH I?
ralle got a very convincing tone with his. he just did not have sunset studio

[EJSLPlexi]

I'd say VH1 is more the Duncan Custom and Vh2 is the '78 model.

Why not Roger....

Having said that, does it really matter if we can prove one way or the other.

If it doesn't matter, a whole lot of people have gone through a whole lot of of trouble to call Ed and everyone else who says re-wound PAF liars, etc.

Determining or arguing about what pickup exactly was in Sunset #1, we will never know.

Only if you don't believe Ed....

Why not what? I'm confused. Are you saying that 1) Ed used a stock PAF, 2) Ed used a "rewound PAF" to 9 ish K -- Duncan '78, or 3) the PAF was rewound to 13k as a Duncan Custom.

I think any of those would fit into exactly what Ed said. I think all of those could get one to Vh1 or Vh2 tone depending on use or lack of use of an EQ. I believe the TT thinks he is remembering things the way he describes them. Ed also said he destroyed PAFs wax potting them. Did he destroy one that Seymour rewound? Or stock.

yeah he confused the crap out of me too! He never specified what PAF he was talking about

[wjamflan]

yeah he confused the crap out of me too! He never specified what PAF he was talking about

That doesn't seem to be too difficult since you responded to my specifying which PAF I was talking about (see below).

Ed said he had the PAF in Franky re-wound before recording VH I. He said he liked the way the re-wound PAFs sounded on the record. As for the spec - A2 Gibson 335 PAF re-wound by SD to @ 9.85K (aka the Evenly Voiced Harmonics wind)

The 78 is at 9K and i dont think that pu is on VH I at all.
The old duncan 13.6K custom is much more likely for the first record with the 78 being used on VH II.
the 78 does not have the in your face aggressiveness to be the pu on VH I.
The duncan custom is right in between a 78 and dsd or MM1300 tone/power wise

[wjamflan]

I'd say VH1 is more the Duncan Custom and Vh2 is the '78 model.

Why not Roger....

Having said that, does it really matter if we can prove one way or the other.

If it doesn't matter, a whole lot of people have gone through a whole lot of of trouble to call Ed and everyone else who says re-wound PAF liars, etc.

Determining or arguing about what pickup exactly was in Sunset #1, we will never know.

Only if you don't believe Ed....

Why not what? I'm confused. Are you saying that 1) Ed used a stock PAF, 2) Ed used a "rewound PAF" to 9 ish K -- Duncan '78, or 3) the PAF was rewound to 13k as a Duncan Custom.

I think any of those would fit into exactly what Ed said. I think all of those could get one to Vh1 or Vh2 tone depending on use or lack of use of an EQ. I believe the TT thinks he is remembering things the way he describes them. Ed also said he destroyed PAFs wax potting them. Did he destroy one that Seymour rewound? Or stock.

Roger - Ed said he recorded VH I with a PAF in Franky that was taken from his Gibson 335 and re-wound beforehand by a pro in Santa Barbara (SD). We've discussed it many times before. Your confusion comes from your time here with all of the great clips of folks getting convincing tones with other pickups/setups. The "why not" was my way of throwing up my hands.

[EJSLPlexi]

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