VH 10 June 1977 boot and Ed's gear

[leadguy]

For anyone interested, a VH boot/gear sync can be found.

The VH boots from 10 June 1977 would have the same gear as Ed's previous Whiskey shows with the Mumps a bit over a week before.

http://www.vhboots.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.vhboots.com/oldestlosttape.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.vhboots.com/10june1977first.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.vhboots.com/10june1977second.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;






Notice the 50 watt amp on the right is plugged in and ready to go but not the 100 watt amp on the left.

[leadguy]

Now that I've heard the June 10 1977 boot thanks to Tx it's very interesting.

Eruption and Running With The Devil are just about the same arrangements as on VH1.
Seeing that Ed was always dickin around with Eruption that means something.
Ed's got the end tapping part in this Eruption and after that he's got the old 1976 Eruption end part as well that didn't have the tapping end part.

Ted Templeman didn't hear the tapping end part of Eruption when he signed VH around the end of April so Ed might not have played Eruption that night or Ed might have added the tapping end part between the end of April and the end of May but previous boots could show when the tapping part was actually added.

Ted Templeman also didn't hear the tapping end part when the WB Demos were done because VH didn't play Eruption on them.

Then Ted Templeman did hear the tapping end part during the VH1 recording and put it on the record and this Eruption boot is nearly the same arrangement as on VH1.

This boot also has some things in common with the Warner Bros demos which I think were recorded around May 1977 right after Ted Templeman signed them.

So I think this June 10 1977 boot is getting close to the VH1 recording date which is around late August to mid September 1977 (maybe sooner) with Dave announcing VH1 on an October 1977 boot, and the Black Strat with the Rosewood neck and Mighty Mite pickup is very likely the VH1 Strat.

The striped Strat and Destroyer makeovers and PAF's were done for the platform shoes VH1 cover shoot, way past the recording date of VH1 IMO.

In fact it seems like the Destroyer might have been getting a makeover at the time of the VH1 cover photos as that would explain why the Destroyer is not used for the VH1 cover photos but the Franky and Les Paul Junior (that didn't make it to the final cover) are.
From these photos the Franky makeover was done before the Destroyer makeover but both seem to have been done after VH1.

[Tone Slinger]

I 100% agree with you on that. I think the Franky Body (all black first) and the old Fender bridge that Ed probably traded for, and NOT from a real '58 like he said, was what ended up on the 'after' album famous striped version.

Like the pic's show, rosewood board neck, and that 'vintage' model Mighty Mite pu, that was sold as a Zebra coil to differentiate, I guess.

I have been listening real intently to the WB demo's and the first album, and, imo, it was the same strat .

I do not think Ed used a eq box much, if at all on the Demo's, but I hear it on VH1 alot.


I think that Mighty Mite pu was the one for sure on VH1. A 9.5k cerramic magnet. It makes sense, the lower out put (more high's, cleans up better) combined with the cerramic magnet (compresses the high's more, like the intro to ATBL has that 'Sting', along with giving a slightly tighter 'punch').

I think Ed probably thought he could outdo it, so he probably traded that pu.

[spaceace76]

this is interesting work, as always leadguy!

so VH1 likely doesn't have the brass hardware, and has a low output/ceramic pickup. That could explain why there's such little difference between the destroyer and strat tones on VH1. if the destroyer had the super 70 pickup (A8 mag) it would be pretty bright too. One thing that struck me as odd about Ed's low output, body mounted pickup in his strat was that the destroyer would be so much higher output because it used standard mounting. perhaps this was part of the reason he used the EQ pedals, to keep the output levels roughly the same

[leadguy]

The Mighty Mite actual specs might not have matched their catalogs.
Strat78 has a zebra Mighty Mite.

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... ra#p291334" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Still, I'm hooked on these mid 70's Mighty Mites (been getting them for nothing on eBay lately), they have a snarl that you can sink your teeth into. I picked up a zebra mighty mite #1400 (like the one in Ed's Whiskey Franky?), for $16, and the thing totally sizzles! I thought they were suppose to be wound like a PAF, but it is more like 14k. I think this was the pickup on the first album, maybe."

Another thing is that ATBL isn't on the Warner Bros demos (around May/June 1977) and it's not on this June 10 1977 boot so it seems like Ed and Dave finished ATBL between June 10 and late August 1977.

The Eruption parts on this June 10 1977 boot is just about the same (with some variation) as on VH1, especially the parts before the tapping and it's also similar to the October 15 1977 boot Eruption parts.

The Mighty Mites and Super 70s are pickups with balls.
I've only used a Super 70 but Strat78 Mighty Mite clips show what it can do.

Ed's May 29/June 10 1977 Whiskey gear is very likely used on the Warner Bros Demos around May/June 1977 and I think whatever was used on the Warner Bros Demos was very likely used on VH1 because they are both similar in tone but the Warner Bros demos are just a rougher recording with no Sunset Sound reverb room processing or final mixing and mastering.

[Tone Slinger]

Well, I think the Zebra Mighty Mite was a lower output wind, as compared to say, a Super Distortion. Lower ohm pu's seem to NOT use a Ceramic magnet (maybe the Mighty Mites did ?) because the tone can get very bright and slightly harsh, according to some pu maker's I've been talking to. They have told me that the pu needs at least 12 to 13 k type output, to make the ceramic magnet sound/work good in the pu.

I think that a 9 to 10k (like the '77 spec ad shows the vintage zebra Mighty Mite as being, 9.5k), wind, with a ceramic magnet, might actually be worth trying. I do hear a slight 'brittle' type thing to Ed's tone (strat) on VH1. If the zebra Mighty Mite was at the 13 to 14k type output, then you would lose all the brightness and treble.

[leadguy]

I don't know if Strat78 measured the DC resistance of his Zebra Vintage Mighty Mite or if it just seemed to sound like the Mighty Mite Distortion.

[EJSLPlexi]

Notice the 50 watt amp on the right is plugged in and ready to go but not the 100 watt amp on the left.

I still think VH I is a 50 watter and not his NO.1 marshall head 12301.
yeah it is just speculation but i hear a 50 watter's gain on VH I and VH II is the 100 watter(12301)

[Tone Slinger]

Leadguy had some real cool sleuth work going on. Wjamflan as well . I have to admit though, that there is a flyer for a show in '77 that has the striped Franky/maple neck. It was a Summer gig (June to no later than Aug. 1977). This indicates that the franky had its famous makeover BEFORE they cut that first record.Wjamflan has brought this to light However, the pickup in it at that time is still undisclosed .

As for the amp, I SWEAR that there was MORE going on with Ed's tone (and how it differed) in '77 as compared to later on.

That 12xxx (like all of them) has a very distinct 'buzz/hum/noise' that is unique and more apparent than the later Super Leads. They are a bit noisier. You can hear this on VanHalen5150's clips or Jeremy's 'Halloween Night' clip that Jnew tracked. You can VERY much hear this EXACT ac hum/noise on Ed's amp on the 'Oct. '77 Pasadena civic bootleg. Obviously ALL wound up 50 or 100 watt Marshalls of the vintage era have a layout/grounding scheme that is gonna produce noise and hum, but the transitional era amps (12xxx) are noisier (maybe that laydown, rotated tranny, etc ?). I dont hear that exact hum on all the boots, which might indicate that a different amp was being used besides that 12xxx, like say that small box 50 or the 'wooden' Plexi, etc.

I think that maybe more emphasis could/should be placed on tuning a 50 watt plexi, in regards to that early BrownSound.

Regardless of which amp Ed used on VH1, it DOES appear that he ran it (12xxx) in tandem alot with either that Wooden 100 ('71 ?) or that small box 50 ('68?) in 1977, as well as NOT using it at all on occasion, relying on that 50 watter or the wooden 100 watter. Listen 'inbetween' the songs on the '77 boots. The 12xxx is buzz/hum city. The wooden head and/or that 50 wouldnt be as noisy imo. Still, the lighting/stages,power supply, etc can make things worse depending on the venue being played

[EJSLPlexi]

TS, i really am convinced the reason for the drastic change in amp tone you mention is that eddie left out some info for recording VH I.
I think he used the 50 watter for VH I that he used live and that why it sounded so different to VH II.
He never got that tone again but yet the main amp is still with him?
His No I marshall 12301 shown here is not even plugged in but the 50 watter is

[Tone Slinger]

Right, it very well could be the case. I know that Mark (rip) often declared his belief that VH1 was a 50 watter.

My main problem is WHY hasnt Ed said anything about this ? He has pretty much come clean on most things.

One thing is certain, a good Marshall plexi (50 or 100 watter) is a GOOD MARSHALL PLEXI, and either can pull off early Ed. To ever get down why one amp has 'it' and another (of the EXACT run) does not, is a hard one. The exact voltages and behaviors deep in the components and transformers, etc ,is akin to why one oak tree grows Mightier than another. Both sprout out of a little acorn.

[rgorke]

In the Mumps picture? They both look plugged in to me. In the Whiskey picture, the 100 is definitely plugged in. We can't go on what he was using at a gig is exactly what was used for VH1.

[Strat78]

I think the 5th pic down is the VHI set up in the studio for many of the tracks. The note separation in those RWTD raw clips has got to be the result of two different heads. I know there are two tracks that were combined, but both those tracks were probably a result of multiple mics. Daisy chain 100w with the 50w: Guitar straight into 50w (boost?) with it's own cab, jumper to the effects, 6-band or whatever, into 100w head with it's own cab. Mic and blend both cabs?

[wjamflan]

However, the pickup in it at that time is still undisclosed

Interesting.....

I gotta say, that based on the pic from right before they recorded VH1 that it indeed appears that Ed had the PAF in there. After all my doubt over the years about this, I must say that I "Stand corrected"

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 6&start=30

Striped/taped Franky- ( earliest confirmed pic isnt conclusive of pu, though it looks like maybe a streak of light color under Ed's right hand (Zebra ?), though that could be the white paint of the body/pickup routing ?)

'78 tour striped/taped Franky- Black Paf

Sorry again Kurt. Just wanted to offer these:

1977


Looks like a black bobbin with some edge light glare to me - Black PAF (like he said). You can see the same glare in many photos from 1978. Some examples:

[wjamflan]

To clarify, it sure does not look like a white bobbin from the zebra humbucker that was present in Frank in the Jenny Lens photos from 5/29/77.





The Jenny Lens setup is most likely what you hear on the WB demo. The b & w striped Frank with a PAF is on VH I. I think the interesting question now was whether or not he still had the tone knob we see in the Civic poster photo.





FWIW, the boot referenced in the OP is the first time Ed sounds like he did on VH I. It's not the best quality-wise, so you might want to seek out Magic Mountain and the Civic/Nightmare boots which bookend the recording of VH I. They are much clearer and eye opening in the details....