How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

For all things to build the brown sound

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dirtycooter
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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by dirtycooter » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:40 am

Shure 57's-as close to the grill cloth as you can get with out touching it-I find it 1-2 inches from dead center is my favorite place to be-on the edge or just getting off the dust cap. Tons of room there for alot of flavor though in only 6 inches [half the speak from the center out to the edge] try them all in 1 inch increments or 6 segments each moving out an inch at a time and listen to a playback all in a row of about 15 second jams on each-you'll see what I mean :wink: Then you pick your favorite spot and zone in. it sounds like alot of trouble but its time well spent-it'll serve you well later to know this stuff and its effects on the tone. You won't reach for an EQ so much later-less is more here.

you'll also see very quickly-that JBL and greenback thing-well you can get those two different tones off of "one greenback"-by moving the mic-yes there is that much difference in brightness and mellowness to be found here :wink:

I would experiment heavily there the most-cause anythnig you do later is only gonna fix things so much-its best not to have to fix nothing if you can get it right at the mic placement first. Then there is all the less to screw around with later-I don't think studio polish made that sound to be honest-its only just a small fraction of it.

Then the rest is the quality of equipment and what you can afford really.

I wouldn't rule out a slightly delayed detune form an eventide of the 78 era [used as a "pre-delay"] feeding that verb-a detuned signal fed to reverb separates nicely from the source but blends well-sounds deeper and bigger-and you're able to make it much wetter without cluttering up the dry sound-IF you really want verb on it. Sounds hard to believe but I really really think thats a good possibility of what maybe was done. It is unlike any other verb on any other record to me.

Remember and keep in mind-live from the early days until today-Ed said he hates reverb-and he only used echo or delay units. So I don't see why everyone wants to get attached so much to the verb-its not what he actually jammed on alone or live that inspired him to pull off all that.
He never used verb live in 76-78-its not even in his rig today either. The verb really hasn't much to do with it tonally. I think people focus on the verb way to much-dry or wet his amp sounded only one way and thats it.
Of course the panning-thats obvious if you have a fader for your left and right speaks-you can hear the guitar disappear fading out of the left speaker and into the right only-pretty standard straight mono with a spread of reverb maxing out mostly on the opposire side of the dry tone-with some serious early reflections-and there is delay/echo on it thrown in in spots-like Atomic Punk-thats delay on the other side there-ATBL is another one-thats the delay smeared and smoothed in with verb basically. Then there is other positions on other records with various times and amounts of delay going on-thats a huge can of worms right there and like finding gold to get that short slap delay just right :wink:

cary chilton

Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by cary chilton » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:08 am

dirtycooter wrote:
I
Remember and keep in mind-live from the early days until today-Ed said he hates reverb-and he only used echo or delay units. So I don't see why everyone wants to get attached so much to the verb-its not what he actually jammed on alone or live that inspired him to pull off all that.

Because VH1 is LOADED with Reverb. People love VH1's tone here. The EMT140 plate is lush and it definitely does things to the character of the signal going into it................................

cary chilton

Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by cary chilton » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:13 am

leadguy wrote:The 2 raw no processing straight off the mics master tape tracks are the 2 mics.

Some think that one mic is on a JBL and the other on a Celestion but I don't, because one mic is producing a darker lower volume tone which IMO is because of it's position on the Celestion and the other mic is producing a brighter higher volume tone which once again IMO is because of it's position on the Celestion cone.
Also the frequency spectrum of the GH tracks doesn't point to JBL's and sinasl1 has got real close to the ATBL frequency spectrum just using a single Celestion with I think a couple of mics in different positions and mixing the result together. and then some reverb and EQ http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17343" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also Donn Landee seems to like to record with 2 mics in different positions on one speaker and then mixing to get a darker/brighter mix .
The JBL's were used for live shows and were not used in the studio IMO.
Ed might have been trying to emulate Landee's 2 different mic positions with the JBL's and Celestions for live stuff.

Alex's drums tend to sound the way they do because Donn Landee miced them from inside the drum for isolation.

http://www.vhlinks.com/pages/interviews/avh/dl1998.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't believe Ed used D120 for his live rig at all.......... the rest of your post is just talking about 2 different mic positions, there may have 3!!! who cares... the ROOM dictates where your going to put those mics ;)

leadguy
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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by leadguy » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:21 am

The 2 RWTD raw tracks are 2 mics with no reverb.
It's pretty standard to use 2 mics in different positions, no big deal.

http://books.google.com/books?id=qyhHmGh_9fEC&pg=PA164" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The VH1 GH tracks are the 2 mic tracks mixed and then re-amped through the Sunset Sound reverb chamber for the main channel light reverb (not the heavy reverb that's mainly panned to one channel on the VH1 album).

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopi ... 34ddd4ef28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Van Halen's first record


BTW - they used two mics on his amps (I know as I've seen the master tapes), one channel very dark and one kinda bright. Together, they make "that sounds" but not one by itself.

The echoes were also 1/4" machine, especially as heard on "Eruption".

They also used Compex limiters in addition to 1176. So it's hard to say where the tone came from. Mostly his amp and fingers, yes."

Interesting things about EQ and Compression and Mastering

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/dhinterviews ... gazine.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"When your swinging, Swing some MORE" ~Monk

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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by rgorke » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:48 am

Here is the guitar amp recording article in Sound on Sound to which I was referring.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug07/a ... ording.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think this gives you some basic starting points. Then, use headphones and your ears to fine tune the position of the mic.
"If you make a mistake, do it twice and smile and let people think you meant it." Jan Van Halen.

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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by evhguitars » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:33 am

Buy the exact same snare drum that AVH was.. farting on,,,uhm I me was using..
That is the brownsound...there is no such thing for a guitar sound of EVH..he changed his sound and tone way too often...
Now, go get a life! And create your own sound!!

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jerrydyer
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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by jerrydyer » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:47 am

cary chilton wrote:
jerrydyer wrote:people with adhd dont like to read more than one paragraph.
be thankful I imparted anything.................................................

I was just trying to tease rick
vids.
http://www.youtube.com/user/jerrydyer?feature=mhw4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dui-specialist.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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jerrydyer
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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by jerrydyer » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:49 am

evhguitars wrote:Buy the exact same snare drum that AVH was.. farting on,,,uhm I me was using..
That is the brownsound...there is no such thing for a guitar sound of EVH..he changed his sound and tone way too often...
Now, go get a life! And create your own sound!!

we cant read your garbage. if you dont like the forum leave. This is here for a reason. These guys have lots of great tones that they can call theirs they just want to know details on how certain things were done so, if you wabt to fight and call people names go to HCAF.
vids.
http://www.youtube.com/user/jerrydyer?feature=mhw4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dui-specialist.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dirtycooter
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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by dirtycooter » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:50 pm

Well-reverb or not-the core tone is the core tone-that doesn't change-and it came before the reverb no matter which way you look at it so really it has nothing to do with the sound he got or really had-but its partly the impact it makes on the listener's psyche that I will agree.
I feel one has to try to listen "past the verb" to get to what was really there though.
If you took that sound with the verb on it from venue to venue-as the rooms change you'll have to adjust the reverb too accordingly but I guess if you want to spend time dialing it in for a recording that is different and is why we are here. But Ed did move to get dryer and dryer as time passed-Fair Wairning is alot dryer and I like that alot.
I have to agree on the two mics also.

dirtycooter
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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by dirtycooter » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:51 pm

evhguitars wrote:Buy the exact same snare drum that AVH was.. farting on,,,uhm I me was using..
That is the brownsound...there is no such thing for a guitar sound of EVH..he changed his sound and tone way too often...
Now, go get a life! And create y
our own sound!!
We should just stop this whole forum now-thanks for bringing the light :roll:

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Re: How to actually "Record" the VH/Brown Sound???...

Post by uiovbged332 » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:39 pm

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