Maybe Ed IS telling the truth !

[beaulieu]

In that Mumps pic is the Head on the right a 50 watter?? Another thing I'd like to mention is I wonder what gear he was using around 82-83?? I have the Largo show and the South American shows both on DVD and I don't think they have Ed's "Magical" tone.It's his fingers playing but it just not there.After hearing these 2 shows there might be a little more to the amp then I sometimes think??I wonder if by this time he was using 70 watt celestions?These 2 shows sound like a Cranked Metal Panel Marshall.Clean,Loud and Harsh.I have 2"REAL" 100 watt Marshalls,1 from 69 and 1 from 71.The 71 is a Plexi spec except the Voltage is right at 500 and my 69 is 470.Im also using only half of the 50/50 caps on the screens and the PI(69).My 69 sounds alot better then my 71.The 71 seems louder and harder if that makes sense?The 69 seems to be alot more softer sounding if that makes sense?? Anybody can explain why the 71 sounds Harsh?? I have a 73 50 watter with a 100k NFB and it to sounds Harsh/Hard.I can believe that Ed's main Marshall might be "special" for my 69 compared to the 71 kinda makes that statement believable!

[leadguy]

It looks like a 50 watt. It looks like it's hooked up and not Ed's white knob "main" Plexi.
There is a boot from 2 weeks after the Mumps Whiskey end of May 1977 date http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By 82 Ed might have been using different speakers and other stuff.
Some Marshalls just sound better than others for various reasons.


Ed did daisy chain his amps for the 78 world tour and there is no slaving going on, just daisy chained amp setups.
It's all pretty standard stuff, the same as other bands were doing at the time, so Ed was telling the truth.

[vanhalen5150]

So from what is from above. Is it possible the only reason Ed had the 50 watters was depending on the venue room size. Smaller venue, 50 watt main amp. There could have been fairly small venues with even the Japanese tour. It would make sense to have a (2) 50 watt amps with one as a backup for this reason I guess.

[leadguy]

Ed could just drop 2 100 watts amps out of each 3 100 watt daisy chained amp setup leaving one hundred watt for each amp setup.
I don't know if he ever did this or needed to.

50 watt, 100 watt, they are both pretty loud on 10.

Ed might just like the 50 watt and 100 watt tones.

VH1 might be a 50 watt or it might not.

[leadguy]

Here is Clapton at the Whiskey with his 5 watt Champ amp.

Those dudes at the front are very close to Claptons amp.

[RACKSYSTEMS]

Look as far a jbls it was a experiment. He might have used 2 amps in the studio or one cab with 2 different kind of speakers. We won't know for sure. He can't remember. He experiments a lot and blows things up a lot as a result. H&H power amp were not used till 84 tour. His head went to a cab and then a line out was taken to the H&H power amps to drive more cabs with the same sound. Slaveing into a load came for the 5150 tour when his sound started to be ruined.

[RACKSYSTEMS]

oh and volume a 100 watt is considerably less in vol at 90 volts on the variac.

[plexified]

in my experience , the first time a guitar player does not have enough volume with a loud drummer or venue , that 50 watter spawns a 100 watt head in its replacement , as it should .

A hundred watter should be well worth the effort to fine tune .

The big transformer versions are gonna hurt though . Thats when the volume begins to overpower the drummer and singer . But remember its a laser line focus in a 4x12 so even that is managable .

The load tap off of a half stack is a tried and true way to run more power live or in the studio . Also to propegate a solid tone .

If you think a single 100 watt head was too loud for Gazzaras or the Rainbow , are you kidding me ?

So , I can't tell you how many good sounding heads that I have heard that never ever needed anything but a cord a guitar and a cabinet .

With that kind of tone their is no way you would ever even think to try to slave .

Granted guys did it and liked it . Ken Fischer used to load a 50w plexi with just a pure resistive load into the front of a 2204 with 6550's in a single cab . So a 50 into a 100 watter . All just average gear . But just his fine tuning . Absolutely stellar . Road reliable for 8 years . wonderful tone

The premise of the old greenbacks holding up seems hard for some to really believe . The full blown Marshall plexi small transformer 12 series head with 6ca7's will sound absolutely stellar into a G-12-20 loaded 4X12 cabinet . It will also live . Here is why .

The old cabinets had a very good air tight seal and a very thick grille cloth that both cushioned the cone shock when the big signals pushed hard . The cones were less prone to extreme excursion due to this cushion in the 4x12 that was the polar opposite in an open back cabinet .


I'm sure Ed was using this and experimentation blew it up . Next stage was the large transformers and the 25 watt speakers and a different cabinet configuration . Much more volume and the cabinets were not sealed when the casters where off . This lead to alot of blown cabs and some that just absolutely breathed better with this . Old 4X12's vary ALOT in tone . Especially without the tolex .

Just those small variables alone are enough to get you thinking .....

Did he save the good stuff for recording ?

He lost his A+ gear once overseas (#1 & #2 Marshalls) , imagine how that could feel

I think he did . He sought out vintage marshalls for a long time and his amp collection has been something else over the years .

But its smart to make your own amp line . Why not , I think the EVH brand has been very cool .

Sorry for the long wind but it was cool to read Daves insights

I don't think Ed lied . I think he was gracious to share and in times that were surely exciting and beyond imagination , he tried

[jcs]

Well, i have front row pics from the Kansas City show where VH opened for Eddie Money-Steve Miller-Kansas at Royals Stadium (and no i aint sharin em ).

Same set up as seen earlier for 78, it was loud as heck up front, Michael Anthony had Ampeg SVT stacked up all over his side.

I wonder what was the first stadium show VH did in 78?

[Maverick]

[fivecoyote]

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

Thank you Dave. Incidentally that dovetails completely with the recollections of a guy who knew Ed back in the day.
http://www.woodytone.com/2009/06/24/exc ... rly-setup/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tone Slinger]

Great info there, and very believable for sure. I also talked with a '50 something' year old player (still had long hair too) at a Yngwie Malmsteen concert a few yrs ago. I was drinking some tall pabst blue ribbon's, and cant remember everything, but I recall him saying that Ed played the Destroyer alot, but also used a strat (he said not the striped one) This would have been like late '76 into '77 I guess.

This guy said that Ed had the same sound then as what was on the first album, and that he played very loud. He also mentioned that he was around that scene alot back then. He said he was good friends with Carlos Cavazo. I talked a while with this guy and got the feeling that he also didnt take 'notes' either and even today, only has intermediate knowledge of gear.

From what I gather, Ed seemed to play straight into his amp. I cant believe how bad my short term memory is.

[908ssp]

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

Thank you Dave. Incidentally that dovetails completely with the recollections of a guy who knew Ed back in the day.
http://www.woodytone.com/2009/06/24/exc ... rly-setup/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes and he doesn't remember Ed using a flanger and then says if he did maybe he put it between the pre-amp and power amp....credibility? None.

[Tone Slinger]

Yeah, like I said, these dudes that were there back then didnt get into EVERY detail, that was something that was very rare in a player back then.Hell, Leadguy back inthe 70's said he played through many Marshall's and cab's, BUT, at the time didnt know what the stock speaker's were. Eddie was doing most of his talking, it seems, to non band player contemporaries, as opposed to his age level friends/competition for this very reason.

Ed seemed to source out builders and amp tech guy's.

Those guy's back then who were around played, and had a working knowledge of gear, whether they got mixed up about years of amp development, ala effects loops etc. I think they would have known where the last cable was coming from going into the front of an amp.

[leadguy]

In the Ritchie Blackmore interview http://www.woodytone.com/2009/04/20/rit ... re-part-1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; you can tell Ritchie knew hardly anything about gear.

In fact it's very similar to Ed's interviews with descriptions that make no sense if you know about amps etc but they are describing it the best that they can because they were guitar players and not amp techs so they get things mixed up.

Occasionaly they might throw in a bit of BS but most of it turns out to be true.

To expect Ritchie to give an accurate technical description of his gear is barking up the wrong tree and he's not hiding anything or anything like that as he acknowledges the Tape Recorder, the amp mods etc.

"Do you use the stock speakers in the cabinets?

Yeah, whatever they are."

He knew Jim Marshall and I wish I knew Jim Marshall back then.

Most players in the 70s weren't amp techs or anything like that.

Ed could have hid the variac in a box backstage if he had wanted to but there is the variac in all the old photos and Ed's not hiding it. Ed could have hid the white knob at the back of the Plexi when Zloz was taking photos or that Japanese cameraman but Ed didn't. There are photos of Ed's trem setup that Ed could have hidden with a backplate but didn't.

Ed being highly secretive is just BS to me. What Ed didn't like was all the dudes copying him that came out of the woodwork. I think that came as a surprise to Ed and he didn't like it that much but over the years he got used to it.