Maybe Ed IS telling the truth !

[redozzman]

Considering that Ed did seem to solely use the 25 watter's on that first tour, it seems odd that he would have been able to crank as he did, if that is in fact what he was doing. Then again, 2 cabs per 100 watt head lessens the beating those speakers were seeing. I definatly hear the speakers 'giving it up' on those '78 tour boots. Same with old UFO era Michael Schenker. Volume was definatly used.

My main problem with the attenuated thing at this point, is , Ed would have to have modded some of his heads to bypass the preamp (on the second head) as we all know the second amp needs a shorter simpler circuit path, as not to deteriorate the tone from the line out from the loadbox.

Man, I sure wish I had the proper equipment to try this all out with.

Some here do, ala Stan, Mark, rgalpin, and VHaxman to name a few.

I disagree, I have a 69 supertreme that I have been using as the "poweramp" and I get great results from it, I don't think you need an amp with the tone stack bypassed, you just have to adjust the tone controls, in my case the treble and Mids are set at about 1-2 and the bass is on 0, I can get a great tone out of it. Sorry I don't have any good recordings Ive made a few vids but they really don't do the amp any justice and for that matter my playing does not either

[RACKSYSTEMS]

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

[vanhalen5150]

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

What can you tell us about the output transformer Dave? Any insight.

100 watt into 1 cab with 4 25 watt speakers. Wouldn't they blow easy? Do you think a 50 watt head maybe?

[leadguy]

Clapton and his speakers http://gpatt.customer.netspace.net.au/c ... ouder3.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.legendarytones.com/claptonearly1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I used to have my 100 watt Plexi up at 10 with one cab in the 70s and I presume the speakers were 25 watt but I wasn't into gear specs at that time. I also had a backup amp owned by my bass player.

If Ed did blow a speaker then he has a backup cab, he can't just say if a head or speaker blows in the middle of a set, goodnight and thanks for coming.
Ed has backup everything, cab, head, echoplex etc.

He wouldn't need all 4 cabs but they look good dwarfing that Mumps dude's gear and only one cab would be miced I would think.

[rgorke]

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

well, there you have it. Makes sense to me. Ed has always said as well that his hands play a huge part as well. I think we all have a hard time thinking it is that simple, but it is.

Thanks Dave!

[Strat78]

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

Thanks Dave! So the question remains: Why is that "Robin L" thread still a sticky. Not much jived in that thread as far as early VH is concerned and this reiterates that. Am I missing something?

[rgorke]

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

Thanks Dave! So the question remains: Why is that "Robin L" thread still a sticky. Not much jived in that thread as far as early VH is concerned and this reiterates that. Am I missing something?

Very good question.

[908ssp]

Very simple. Rudy leiren told me personally. Flange phase echoplex into a marshall with variac to 90 into only one cab. The univox echo or whatever was only patched into the chain for eruption he also used a eq for eruption. Eq was also occasionally used for tone shaping with amps that did not sound as good. This was the core setup. As more vol was needed more amps were added and more cabs but sill only one per amp. There really is nothing more to it. Lots of sustain and feedback from the sheer vol of it all. Now ed was always experimenting and still does to this day so there might have been some mishaps along the way like tubes melting etc. No lying just things not explained the right way out of a lack of technical knowledge.

While I have no doubt this is true... to a certain extent. There is way too much not mentioned here. For one you posted takes off a JBL cab and a Celestion cab...not mentioned in the post above. For two this doesn't mention how he controlled his volume. There is way too much info on the re-amping thing for volume control for it to be shear nonsense. I can understand that the re-amping thing was NOT considered part of the tone and therefore was dismissed by Eddie and Rudy as not important to the tone and therefore not worth mentioning. It doesn't mean it never happened. We know it happened later for sure first with tubes and later with H&H amps what isn't clear is when did this first happen and was it only used for live sound and never in the studio.

Rockstah, Rallie and others proved it takes fingers more than anything to get the tone. The rest is mainly for the historical amusement.

[vanhalen5150]

Just looking at the Japan tour photo's. (2) 50 watters and (7) 100 watters. All the 100's are ready to go. The top 50 W is plugged in with a speaker cord, but not the one under it. Did Rudy say a single 100 watt or a single 50 watt? If slaving was used, was it 100 into a 50 or the other way around? If you were solely using 100 w amps why would you have the 2 50 watt amps? Why would they even be plugged in. If you were going through a 50 watt head what other purpose would the 100's have other than slaving ? Looks?

There's a job for leadguy. Follow the cords on that those shots. The front is WTF?

[leadguy]

Thanks Dave! So the question remains: Why is that "Robin L" thread still a sticky. Not much jived in that thread as far as early VH is concerned and this reiterates that. Am I missing something?

Not that I really care but for fxxxx sake get rid of that ROBIN L. fake sticky and replace it with Daves info.
I'm not a mod here but I am a mod at a guitar forum and stuff like the ROBIN L. thread wouldn't last 2 seconds on my forum.

There are so many people here that don't believe anything said by anyone yet this mysterious ROBIN L. is still a sticky.

The thread I started about the pedalboard http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30570" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ends up being in sync with what Dave said about the EQ being used for Eruption (probably because of the Univox) and not what ROBIN L. said about a EQ loop.

JBL cab and a Celestion cab

Have a look at the above Mumps Whiskey photo from the end of May 1977 and tell me where the JBL's are.

For two this doesn't mention how he controlled his volume.

How did other guitarists do it like Clapton and Page that also played at the Whiskey and other unknown club guitarists.
This is a tired old argument for slaving.
Was Ed playing in a 10 foot square room or something?

first with tubes and later with H&H amps

Ed went to the Bob Bradshaw designed slaving switching system in the mid 80s which Bob had been working on for years.

[leadguy]

Japan tour photo's

The Japan photos are of Ed's gear when it was only partially setup so it's hard to reach any conclusions from them but the amps look partially setup in a daisy chain config.

He lost most/all of the amps after Japan and still sounds basically the same with Laneys and MusicMans or whatever he used as a temp replacement.
A few more EQ's and tweaking on the replacement amps and Ed's ready to go. They might not be his favorite amps but they will do the job.

Ed said he still basically sounded the same with the replacement amps because of the way he plays, which I agree with.

[vanhalen5150]

I agree. There are no JBL's till the photos of VHII. But that still doesn't discount them being on VH1 recording. I'm not sure how the iso's where done for the GH game, but I think they are mixed for the game and not just taken apart from the masters of the album.
It was Dave, that gave us the RWTD clip with the 2 speaker's including the "JBL". Maybe thats just what he was told?
Partial setup perhaps. But with all the amps there it's really hard to say.

[leadguy]

According to Ed he had 3 different amp setups of 3 heads each (daisy chained) or something like that.

From my pedalboard thread, Ed has 2 setups he used live and the 3rd setup might be used as a last resort backup when/if the other 2 setups fail.

Ed's setups are a main setup of the optional flanger into a phase into a Echoplex 1 then into daisy chained amps number 1 and a Eruption/backup setup of EQ into Echoplex 2 into footswitched Univox into daisy chained amps number 2.
The second Eruption setup is hooked up just before the Eruption/YRGM part of the set but the second setup is always available to be quickly hooked up if the main setup fails.

There are optional EQ's as well.

[Tone Slinger]

Great info guy's. If I'm listening with ear's (and not wanting/wishing for something more unusual, like the reamping thing) I have to say that I hear a maxed head type sound.All the reamping clips I've heard are to loose and furry sounding, while the dimed and attenuated clips sound about right. I also hear a bit more gain than this would allow as well(cranking), making me think Ed probably used the 10 or 6 band eq often.

Maybe Ed ran the 50 watters full out, then into some kind of load type device that allowed the 50 watters to still power a cab, BUT, also fed thier sound into the 100 watters to sort of blend and 'fill' out the sound a bit more. I guess 'daisy chaining in a particular kind of way.

[leadguy]

In that Japan 1978 amp photo above there are 6 amp heads hooked up and 3 that are not including the 50 watt heads.

3 amps = amp setup number 1 = main setup
3 amps = amp setup number 2 = Eruption/backup setup
3 amps not hooked up = amp setup number 3 = last resort backup

2 variacs, one each on the main head in setup number 1 and on the main head in setup number 2 with the other 2 heads in each setup daisy chained to the main variaced head.

2 Echoplexes, one on amp setup number 1 (main setup) and the other on amp setup number 2 (Eruption setup).

Ed always has a backup everything this way. If a Echoplex goes down he can switch quickly to another amp setup and still have a Echoplex. If a cab blows a speaker he can switch quickly to another amp setup. If a amp head blows he can switch quickly to another amp setup.

So Ed has 3 daisy chained 100 watt heads for his stage volume in both amp setups (amp setup 1 and amp setup 2) which is then miced for the PA.

The actual details vary a bit (from my pedalboard thread) from what Ed says below but not by much and Ed is not the best explainer out there.

"EVH: What I basically have is three different setups, three complete setups. I have three 100-watt tops of whatever make – right now I'm using Music Man, a couple of Laney amps, which are English, and a couple of new Marshalls. I'm just using everything right now because I lost those old amps. But I use three 100-watt amps for the main set – what I call it – and then I do my guitar solo, and after that I change guitars and amps to setup number two. Setup number three is also again three amps, for backup.

Guitar.com: So you have each guitar . . .

EVH: Plugged into a different setup. So if something is wrong with the first one, all I do is grab another guitar, and it's completely different amps. So I don't have to worry about trying to fix the setup that I was using. I got so many different heads. I just gotta patch 'em all together and hope it sounds cool. It's working out pretty good. And I use the same style guitar. I use one pickup in the back and the vibrato. That's the sound I'm into right now. Who knows what will happen on the next record."

"I just gotta patch 'em all together and hope it sounds cool." = daisy chained together.

At the end of a daisy chain there is only one lead going into the final daisy chained amp.

So Ed has 2 daisy chain inputs and 2 daisy chained outputs and each daisy chain consists of 3 amp heads for two 3 head daisy chained amp setups. One main 3 head amp setup and another Eruption/backup 3 head amp setup.

So there should be 2 amps with 2 input leads (red arrows) and 4 amps with one input lead (green arrows) and the two Echoplex leads (blue arrows) go into 2 of the amps with one lead and the two 3 amp daisy chain setup is complete.



Two lead daisy chained amp head.





Two Echoplexes with the same settings. One Echoplex on the main amp setup and another on the Eruption/backup amp setup.
Having two Echoplexes with the same settings in series is pretty pointless.