Debate on Eddie's Plexi

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stef
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by stef » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:41 pm

Strat78 wrote: Also, I'm amazed how close George's 12xxx kit brought us to the tone. Other than the 2.7k instead of 820ohn I think we were there. This is from 2010:
Here is a clip, guitar, Echoplex and 68 Metro 100w; volume on 8:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9451688" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, I know this clip, this is the one with a 22nf V1b plate coupler, you switched with a 2n2 soon after but unfortunately removed that clip... That sounded really good and very close and DF was right about one thing, a decent pro producer could make it even closer (if not spot on)to VH1 recorded tone.
I did some tweaks inspired by this discussion - 1k is back in V1b cathode (that stock resistor always sounded the best in my amp, Ben used to like that value too if I remember correctly) and 25k mid pot is back in the game. NFB the same as before 47k/16, everything is stock specs. Did not have a chance to properly test the amp yet, but what I managed to conclude is that it now sounds much livelier with more harmonics and less mud. :vh:

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echoplexi1974
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by echoplexi1974 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:45 pm

RACKSYSTEMS wrote:
Oh then the brand of variac changes the sound also.
Someone wanna explain this one to me? I almost fell out of my chair laughing the first time I read it :roll:

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by SoZo » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:55 am

echoplexi1974 wrote:
RACKSYSTEMS wrote:
Oh then the brand of variac changes the sound also.
Someone wanna explain this one to me? I almost fell out of my chair laughing the first time I read it :roll:

Yup my findings too, I totally agree with Dave ...
http://www.sozocapacitors.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Jeremy1283
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by Jeremy1283 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:35 am

SoZo wrote:
echoplexi1974 wrote:
RACKSYSTEMS wrote:
Oh then the brand of variac changes the sound also.
Someone wanna explain this one to me? I almost fell out of my chair laughing the first time I read it :roll:

Yup my findings too, I totally agree with Dave ...
How can different variacs change the tone differently?

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by jnew » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:10 am

I'll take a stab at it here. The voltage supplied by the wall outlet has LOTS of current, or amperage, available to sustain the demands put on the amp. The result in this way is a faster recovery and the amp will operate in a stiffer or more rigid way when compared to operating with a variac. Think of a variac as a real small version of the transformer outside of the club's building, or house, that does not supply the same kind of amperage or current that the big transformer outside on the pole would. So now, as load demands are put on the amp, the voltage supply drops or sags because it has far less backbone or support, so to speak (amperage). This includes running the variac at the same voltage as the wall outlet, or apples to apples if you will. The amp simply sags and behaves differently because of the limited amperage, or current supply. So, in understanding this, you can see that a 5 amp variac would cause an amp to sag, behave or feel different than say a 20 amp variac would. I don't know what amperage the Ohmite variac Ed used was but it stands to reason that it would have an effect as stated above. I like to think of the amperage as control over the feel of an amp while the actual voltage has control over the sound. BUT, changing the voltage also affects the amperage. Throw in capacitance values in the amps filtering, biasing and all the other possible tweaks and you're off to never never land of tone. Hope this helps. 8)
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Jeremy1283
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by Jeremy1283 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:02 pm

That makes allot of sense now that I have thought about it. Its another transformer. I have a 10 amp one presently. Gonna look for a old ohmite one.

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by Strat78 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:17 pm

Just type in "ohmite transformer" and you will see a selection of the good ones. I've been using the 10amp and 8amp ones for quite a while, but wouldn't mind trying a 5amp one of these days.

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by rgorke » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:45 pm

Strat78 wrote:Just type in "ohmite transformer" and you will see a selection of the good ones. I've been using the 10amp and 8amp ones for quite a while, but wouldn't mind trying a 5amp one of these days.

What about a lower amperage one...1.75 or 3 amp? Wouldn't that create it own sag? Not convinced Ed would have known the difference...
"If you make a mistake, do it twice and smile and let people think you meant it." Jan Van Halen.

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by jnew » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:01 pm

A mains fuse is 3 or 4 amps. I wouldn't go below that. And if you lower voltage, amperage will increase so you'll be popping lots of fuses and/or you could burn the little fella up. I'm pretty sure you'll realize all the variac effect you need with a 5, 7 or even 10 amp.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by Jeremy1283 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:41 am

So the brand of variac is also the important part. Hmm

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by echoplexi1974 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:11 pm

Jeremy1283 wrote:
So the brand of variac is also the important part. Hmm
If we are talking about the power (current rating) of the variac, that is something completely different than the brand of the variac. I was found it humorous that Dave F said the brand changes the sound. He did not say the current rating of the variac.

Whether it's an Ohmite, Staco, Powerstat, Mastech, Superior Electric, etc., I really don't think the brand really matters :thumbsup:

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by jnew » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:14 pm

I would agree with that.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by Mats A » Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:23 pm

Good Guest wrote:
vh junkie wrote:Yes he did say the .68 uf was on the cathode follower
leadguy wrote:is a very minor addition that Jose did giving it a slight bit more bass in the treble channel
This is the one that bugs me a little... the supposed pic of ed's amp and the 5153 schematic show a small first stage output coupler (a blue 750 pf to a 1000 pf), this would restrict bass in the first channel. Of course we never were sure what those pics were really of...
I think the reason for the 750pf is to emulate the effects ( mxr 6 band ) he normally used before his plexi to make that @1khz tone shine thru...but yeah in the supposed real Eddie preamp pic that cap looks to be something in that range also , perhaps a .001uf .

Now were being led to believe NO he added bass in the treble channel....

A 330pf across the 470k treble peaker ups the treble also and some players get a pretty good vh tone with that one mod and a cascade , so I'm having a hard time swallowing the stock plexi with increased bass in the treble ...doesn't make sense. Especially now that there saying NO 330uf fat cap on the cathode follower which does add bass and gain.... Even the 2203 mod with the .1 paralelling the 10k increases bass but that's a cascaded circuit also.

The white knob could be anything ...there was a push button half power switch mod that Jose used to do that was in one ebay vh marshall...it could be a line out for preamp slaving....it could be a master volume mod... it could be an interstage volume control ..or it could be a way to dial a cap in and out of a circuit and tune it just right.....(.68uf in series with a resistor or paralell) ...that would make a good experiment..as that sems to be key spot before the tone stack to shape tone. But that would affect both channels not just the treble channel.

If it were etched in stone that a single mod to the treble channel for more bass, the magic mod would be exposed so who knows ..with big bucks in the VH tone business to be had all bets are out the window...maybe there is too much competition out there now.People are buying modded plexi's instead of 5153's ...who knows.
I don´t believe he used the MXR 6 Band to get his tone. If you set it like on the picture of Eddies MXR 6 Band it will sound very nasal and like a cocked wah. He never sounded like that. I think he used it as a buffer to the Univox echoe and only when that was plugged in for Eruption. Also a 6 Band doesn´t have a 1Khz band.

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by jnew » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:48 am

I do think it was used but only on maybe half the songs on VHI. It has that sort of excessive noise quality about it on those songs. And it may not have a 1K slider but with the 800Hz and 1.2K boosted, you've got 1K boosted, guaranteed. Personally, I've found the peak of the frown better on more of the treble side than in the middle. But I really don't use the MXR 6 band much.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by matttornado » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:24 pm

I'm pretty sure he used the eq for the ibanez explorer. His chain was normally flanger, phase 90, echoplex amp. Just like he said. It was in a looper pedal (0ne of the big silver boxes on his pedal board. This been discussed and documented years ago. No secret or guesses.

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