Debate on Eddie's Plexi

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vanhalen5150
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by vanhalen5150 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:22 am

Unless it was done purposely it doesn't make sense.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by vh junkie » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:45 am

I think the bellcovers front to back reduces unpleasant noise(s) caused by proximity to the PT. Probably the reason the 69s have the bellcovers front to back. A lot of folks actually move the OT and choke further away from the PT for this reason.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by rgorke » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:35 pm

vh junkie wrote:I think the bellcovers front to back reduces unpleasant noise(s) caused by proximity to the PT. Probably the reason the 69s have the bellcovers front to back. A lot of folks actually move the OT and choke further away from the PT for this reason.
All these little subtile changes, while on their own account for very little, but in total affect the tone. Meaning maybe the "unpleasant noise(s)" played a role in how the amp sounded overall. Maybe they weren't as "unpleasant" when the variac was pulling the voltage down?
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by vanhalen5150 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:59 pm

75,000 hits on this thread.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by Strat78 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:30 pm

jp0971 wrote:I noticed this before. The OT appears to have been rotated when van weelden rewired the amp in the mid 90's... here's a picture that was uploaded with those other gut pictures that are floating around.

Image

It probably just wasn't put back to the stock orientation when it was restored.
Thanks for posting that pic! How long have you had it, because I would say that it is pretty recent. I have never seen that pic posted on the web before. There are shots of the 12301 since the 90's that show it with the OT in stock position. Why does this shot have the background hastily erased out? I don't want to step on toes so perhaps I should be quiet about this.
I would definitely say it was rotated to reduce noise, but then it's not a 12xxx layout anymore. Nothing Ed ever does improves his tone, it just gets more generic and lifeless.

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by jp0971 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:08 am

I found it on here a while ago. It looks like it was first posted here, along with the others.

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 07#p198207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I thought it was around 1997/1998 that it was redone, but I'm not sure. I recall the picture from the magazine (with the amp on the 4x12) was from around 1995 (?) I'm not sure when that issue was from exactly.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by JimiJames » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:03 pm

So... Bonamassa's might the same way ? :scratch:
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by mightymike » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:56 pm

Anybody know what brand that blue coupling cap is in this link? http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 07#p198207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by jp0971 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:51 am

mightymike wrote:Anybody know what brand that blue coupling cap is in this link? http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 07#p198207" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think it might be arco/AE. I found something very similar a while back (see attached picture), but it's .015uf rather than one of the standard values. It's a 400v mylar cap.

I haven't seen these exact caps in values other than .015, .033, and .1, but they might be out there.

It also got me wondering about that part that added bass to the treble channel...
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by Tone Slinger » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:06 am

It was Ben who researched that blue cap I believe. I think he came up with it being a discontinued Xicon ? I do know that he (Ben) mentioned the crimson colored xicon .0022 as being the modern equivalent to it. Polypropylene is the material. Mark used these xicon .0022's alot. I can say that there is definately more sizzle and clarity using these at the plate as opposed to mustard, sozo or mallory. I liked polypro for cathode bypass and PI input as well.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by jp0971 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:52 am

Maybe what I have is different then. I recall Dave F. said it was a xicon as well, but I've never seen a blue one like that.

The one in my picture is definitely mylar - I got two of them in the original packaging, but it didn't say when it was made. Had to have been a while ago judging by the condition it was in.
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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by mightymike » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:00 pm

If Dave says the blue caps are XICON, then that's pretty much golden for me. I do think they are Mylar though. I could be wrong, but I've never seen Polypropylene .02 or .002/400v that physically small in size.

Either way it is interesting to see substitutions for mustards besides the crimson Xicons that John turned Mark onto years ago. When I first saw this pic, I confused them with the Green Mylar signal caps that Bray uses that look very similar in size and shape.. Just green. :mrgreen:

That being said, I kinda want to try some Mylars now.

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by plexified » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:54 pm

The OT orientation makes a difference because................the whole of the magnetic field , expanding and contracting interacts with the obvious output tubes in the picture , but also the below filter capacitor arrangement and the whole power supply rail as augmented with the choke and its whole orientation as well as the decision to use the pre amp tube shields which also have an impact on the electron flow of the tubes . So on and on we see an example of this effects that and uh hugh this effects that uh hugh ( a rapp nod to this and that and this aaahh and this and , you get it ) Shit man this is 3 D , not just a single plane here , Transformers radiate , they effect other parts surrounding them . If you want to get serious buy the remastered VINYL from http://www.recordtech.com/atmweb/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; available at the Van Halen Store . Its a vinyl EP that was mastered from the origional tapes . Go analog and listen , not digital . Next acknowledge the severity of the importance of the power transformer . Bedrock did an overkill back in the day which overshot the wind diamater and got the most stiff and immediate response in tube dome . Think solid state . That origional PT has a power drop / sag that gets hot as a result which is a golden parameter . Then get back to Sunset sounds reverb room . JBL baby . Why ? cause you want your hi fi in your effects . THE guy wanted it in his rig as an option . Randy Rhoades used them for the same thing . You can take away from hi fi but you cannot add very easily to an already shaped sound . Try adding high end to a mix where it does not exist . He played big venues for the first time and clubs and even outside parties and realized the detriment to sound . OUTSIDE is the first introduction friends . Backyard party with your duel stack and shit your ass is handed to you . The EQ stuff was damage control not studio tone chasing . It was live when things went to an unexpected place and NOW WHAT ? I think he was big on leaving the good shit home and by the first VH logo you see a blonde super lead , THAT was the one he striped the tolex from , blonde in a british green or black camp , nahhhh . Strip it , the cab , add some JBL's , hell pull off some grille cloth , Rip apart this , that ........ Coming out of a bedroom to play a backyard party started this . He lost his ass the first time, the tone shocked him . He said shit , this will never happen again

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by plexified » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:06 pm

I guess I forgot to point out that the arguement for a balanced this or a balanced that goes against the colorization camp . The OT in the position where the laminates point towards the tubes disrupt one half of the tube swing more than another . And also the Bedrock PT was very immediate and responsive where as the smaller Marshall was responsive within the given circuit but had a threshold that was brilliantly softer and spongy when really pushed . The Pasadena Civic center has some killer out take Eddie examples of the level of snap , bite and grind that lives within that threshold where spongy meets tight . Its a VERY elusive thing to dial in . His dig and technique captured it but the amp needed to be in the zone . He hit the front end from all angles , tweaked the voltages on the outside and even spun up some wound strings that were nickel and slightly rolled to facilitate the ride . A fine tune on the fly is what you hear , the arsenal is like packing a bug out bag for the apocolypse . Got all the tools your gonna need to trouble shoot the next soundfield ? Thats where you need to be . It is NOT CONSTANT !

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Re: Debate on Eddie's Plexi

Post by Roe » Wed May 28, 2014 10:20 am

Ralle wrote:"... a very minor addition that Jose did giving it a slight bit more bass in the treble channel, ...
more bass in the treble channel can be obtained as follows:
- increased cathode bypass cap on v1b (bigger than .68) or
- increased coupling cap on v1b (bigger than 2n2) or
- modifying the channel mixer circuit so that the bright channels is more than 470k above ground
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