Hear About it Later Intro and Verse - DSD, MA 12000

[Krinkle]

Here's a clip I did to show how the DiMarzio Super Distortion cleans up. After I recorded it with my Wife's camera (regular digital camera that takes mpg's, not a real digital video camera) I realized that the sound quality is not so good, but I promised a few people that I would make a clip as I LOVE the sound of this PUP.

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... IL-DSP.mp4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It may not be clear due to the sound from the crappy camera but this pickup cleans up VERY well. I stood up for the little lead part to turn off the flanger, then turned it back on again for the riffing.

My signal chain;

Strat DSD PUP -> MXR flanger -> MA 12000 (cascaded/2203) -> Load/Line Out Box -> Pitchfactor -> Timefactor -> VHT 2502 -> Marshall 4x12 with Celestion G12M-25 MIE 6402 cones

I really need to get a good video camera, it really does sound great in the room. Anybody got any suggestions for a good digital video camera that won't break the bank?

[Steve_U1S]

That sounds really quite good.

You don't need to sell me on that pickup, mind you; that's been my 'go-to' bridge pickup for /years/ (well, technically, they're Dual Sounds, but that is a Super Distortion pickup bundled with either a mini toggle (earlier on) or a push/pull pot (more recently) - but the pickup itself is one and the same. Originally, the Super-D was just 2-conductor wiring... so the introduction of the Dual Sound was to allow for different wiring schemes for the coils with 4-conductor wiring. Along the way, the made the Super-D the same... so the name, the switch in the box, and the DP100 vs DP101 codes became the only differences =]

Regardless of the non-vid-specific camera video quality, the timbre of the sound comes through well enough to get that vibe, and clearly illustrates the clean-up of the pickup when rolled down.

Nicely demonstrated, and nicely played as well.
Cheers.

[dazzlindino]

Sounds excellent, even tho its thru that camera. Playing is top notch on this and your blackmore vid too.
Someones been woodshedding!

[jimi22812]

Very nice.

[cary chilton]

nice tone and playing Krinkle!

[Krinkle]

Thanks guys. I really should get something decent to record with, though. I always hear more than I do while I'm playing. As soon as I listened to the clip, it confirmed what I was thinking, too much gain with the DSD and with the MA 12000 in the 2203 configuration. So I think I'll be going back to stock, because I really like the DSD and don't want to change it.....unless, Cary, you were right about this PUP, which one of the 4 that you mentioned for FW is the best?

I LOOOOOOOVE Blackmore's playing. I've been obsessed with him since I was about 12 years old. So yeah, I have about 32 years of woodshedding on him. And by the way, if you listened to the "Mother" solo, I do realized that I pooched the ending I was doing a quick clip of my VHR Hiwatt DR103 clone build and even though it would have only taken a minute to re-do it, I just didn't. Plus, the flanger setting was the stock one on the TF and really is not anywhere close to Gilmour's EH Mistress. Damn lazy guitar players!

VH has always been hard for me to play and have it sound authentic to my standards. I never quite realized how much his right hand and the plexi affected the tone until I got my MA about 4 years ago. So I get the MA and think, wow, I can hear everything now, especially all the bad crap! So now I'm trying to catch up.

I forgot to mention that I just put a quad of JJ EL34's in the MA, and all I can say is WOW! Between that and the DSD, my VH tone got a serious makeover this week.

[vanhalen5150]

Well done K.

Those Eventide "factor" units are fantastic. No need to comment on the Metroamp.

[garbeaj]

That sounds pretty good! The Eventide pedals really make that for me...I've got to get my shit together and get some of those! I'll bet it sounds even better in person...nice job!

Did you coil tap for the parts that were played on a standard strat on the recording (the main guitar)? If so, what pickups settings did you use?

[Krinkle]

That sounds pretty good! The Eventide pedals really make that for me...I've got to get my shit together and get some of those! I'll bet it sounds even better in person...nice job!

Did you coil tap for the parts that were played on a standard strat on the recording (the main guitar)? If so, what pickups settings did you use?

Thanks, it does sound much better in the room, the little crap camera is distorting and compressing, I was pretty disappointed when I played the clip back on my computer.

The PF and TF are killer, I love them. I'm using the Tape Echo function with about a 200ms delay mixed a little low, it really gives a decent VH/EP3 vibe when used that way.

It takes all 3 pedals to get the tone just right, the PF and flanger are the biggest part of it, the TF just adds that "VH" to it.

The PF absolutely MAKES So This is Love. I'm pretty sure that I'll be getting the reverb pedal (Space) somewhere along the way this year, won't that pedal just put the icing on the VHI cake!

After hearing how the Super Distortion cleans up, I don't believe that the intro was played on a single coil Strat on the album. I'm also skeptical about Push Comes to Shove too (sorry, I've been dying to use that one!). I did not tap the coils, even though you might have noticed the switches on my Strat (I used to tap the SD59, don't need to with the DSD). It's all just the DSD, with the guitar volume on about 4 for the intro, and then up to 10 for the rest of it. My MA is cascaded and I think that it's too much with the DSD, I'm seriously considering going back to stock, given Ralle's latest clips. My buddy is bringing over his stock MA and I'm going to try it and decide.

[Star*Guitar]

Sounds great..the vibe still comes thru even with the camera. I love that strat..it is super. What body wood is it?

[Krinkle]

It's a 2007 American Strat, candy cola finish, alder body, one piece maple neck. I pulled out the stock pickguard with everything on it (yuck! The stock electronics sounded like ass to me) and replaced it with the black one. I have a DSD in the bridge and a SD59N in the neck position. I have a 3 way slider switch, 2 volumes, and the 2 switches are for coil splitting and treble bleed cap on the neck PUP only. When I first assembled the pickguard and electronics I had a SD59 in the bridge and I had that functionality available on the bridge, but I don't need it for the DSD.

I am extremely happy with the sound of the DSD, I get a very wide range of textures between 2 and 10 on my guitar volume. I just put this PUP in my Strat this week, and it's the first time that I used a ceramic PUP with a good amp. I also put a Pearly Gates in the bridge of my LP, it's an A2, and it sounds tons better than my stock PUP did. The MA helps of course. I have to tell you, I don't have a lot of love for A5 magnets at this moment. That DSD kicked my SD59's ass.

[garbeaj]

That sounds pretty good! The Eventide pedals really make that for me...I've got to get my shit together and get some of those! I'll bet it sounds even better in person...nice job!

Did you coil tap for the parts that were played on a standard strat on the recording (the main guitar)? If so, what pickups settings did you use?

The PF and TF are killer, I love them. I'm using the Tape Echo function with about a 200ms delay mixed a little low, it really gives a decent VH/EP3 vibe when used that way.

It takes all 3 pedals to get the tone just right, the PF and flanger are the biggest part of it, the TF just adds that "VH" to it.

The PF absolutely MAKES So This is Love. I'm pretty sure that I'll be getting the reverb pedal (Space) somewhere along the way this year, won't that pedal just put the icing on the VHI cake!


After hearing how the Super Distortion cleans up, I don't believe that the intro was played on a single coil Strat on the album. I'm also skeptical about Push Comes to Shove too (sorry, I've been dying to use that one!). I did not tap the coils, even though you might have noticed the switches on my Strat (I used to tap the SD59, don't need to with the DSD). It's all just the DSD, with the guitar volume on about 4 for the intro, and then up to 10 for the rest of it. My MA is cascaded and I think that it's too much with the DSD, I'm seriously considering going back to stock, given Ralle's latest clips. My buddy is bringing over his stock MA and I'm going to try it and decide.

Ed has said in the Steven Rosen interviews that he used a standard strat all the way through "Hear About It Later" for the main guitar part including the intro and then the Frankenstein for the lead guitar with the Floyd Rose work. The Harmonizer with the octave divider setting was used on the Frankenstein for the leads. I do not think he used the Harmonizer on the strat for the intro or the main guitar parts, but I could be wrong on that-I'm just going by my ears for that. Here is a version of the intro alone that I recorded on my '68 Strat using the middle and bridge combination out-of-phase position...the signal was guitar-late 70s block logo MXR Flanger and Marshall JCM-800 combo amp. The slap-back delay and compression are from my Adobe Audition software...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3m6ivCA7yk[/youtube]

I'll have to check the Fair Warning interviews to get Ed's words, but at least one of the overdubbed guitars on "So This Is Love?" is a standard strat on the same pickup setting as "Hear About It Later"...I know some have said the lead (and possibly other overdubs) was done with one of his sunburst Les Pauls.

Ed really liked the standard strat bridge and middle out-of-phase sound...For the "Women In Love" intro he did a similar sound using the unfinished strat with the white pickguard,Danelectro neck and the Tele and Fat Strat pickups...except the track used chorus,compression (both probably added by Donn Landee using an Eventide Harmonizer or another studio effect at the mixing stage) and double tracking to achieve that sound...Here is a version of the "Women In Love" intro that I did using my '68 Strat straight into my Line 6 Delay Modeller and my JCM-800 combo amp again...I double tracked the arpeggiated parts after the harmonic tapping parts (as Ed says he did) and added compression and chorus to the entire track using my Adobe Audition software again...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md3aV4xo2Mw[/youtube]

[Krinkle]

I was trying to find a nice way to put it but I couldn't so I may as well say that I don't believe most of what Ed says in interviews. I'm a big Billy Gibbons fan too, and one thing I've found is that these guys will have you chasing your tail in circles if you try to get tones the way they say they got them.

I just go by what I hear. For instance, until proven wrong, I am completely willing to believe the WIL setup based on your clip. To me, that sounds pretty damn close.

However, once I heard this clip;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCZ7AVX6BtI&feature=fvst" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was convinced that HAIL was recorded with the Frankenstrat. I couldn't quite get it clean enough with the SD59, but once I got the DSD, it cemented it for me. I'm actually shocked by how well that PUP cleans up. I could never get it to sound anywhere close with a regular Strat. I don't hear any octave on any of the leads/solos in HAIL, but do on the outro solo in STIL. A lot of people think that was done with a Boss pedal but I always thought that it was the Eventide, why use a Boss pedal when you have the high quality ET sitting there?

Once you get the PF and hear the H910 or H949 tones, you can immediately hear what songs they were used on. And I've found that it's a LOT more than I initially thought! But with different settings for different songs. If you're not playing and just listening, it can be pretty tough to hear a -0.998 detune, depending on how much you mix it in. But you sure can feel it, and miss it once you take it away. Then you change the detune to -0.995, mix it in more, and you get a very middle and bridge combined sound, like the intro of HAIL . I'm convinced that the intro and verses of HAIL have Eventide and MXR Flanger, but that the flanger is turned off for the leads/solo.

One question, though. Are you using the flanger settings that are shown just before the clip is played? I have a reissue and I have to turn my speed down to about 10 o'clock to get it to sound right. I hate to say this but maybe I need a vintage one after all. Anybody compare the reissue with the old one, I'll have to go search Youtube.

I hope you can drum up the cash at some point to get a PF, after hearing your clips, which I really like by the way (that was you with the LWAN solo, right?), I can see where you will go nuts with it. I'll try to do a clip of STIL and I believe that you will be able to hear that it was the Frankenstrat with Eventide detune, whether it was the H910 or the H949.

[garbeaj]

I don't believe most of what Ed says in interviews.

I know what you mean, and there are many people who agree with you. But I think you are making it harder on yourself if you immediately discard everything that Ed says in the interviews. For instance, he said he used an Ibanez Destroyer to record "Running With The Devil" and he did. He said he used the unfinished strat with the Danelectro neck to record the "Women In Love" intro and he did...he used the Ripley stereo guitar to record "Top Jimmy" and he did...there are many instances where Ed is not 100% reliable, but by and large I have always found that he is open and honest about his gear...say 90% of the time. Sometimes he just says crazy shit for whatever reason-but I think he is usually right on the money. He may leave out a detail or two, but he seems to be the best source on his gear by far...certainly better than alot of internet rumors...

I just go by what I hear. For instance, until proven wrong, I am completely willing to believe the WIL setup based on your clip. To me, that sounds pretty damn close.

Thanks! I had known how to physically play "Women In Love" for at least 20 years, but I didn't zero in on the actual tone and guitar/effects until I read one of the unedited Steven Rosen interviews where he talks about the "Women In Love" intro and the particular unfinished guitar that he used to record just that intro with. (you see it in my montage on my clip in the pics from the VH II sessions in the Zlozower book) I also had some debate with some very knowledgeable players (including jimi22812) on another forum and we came up with a pretty good consensus on how it was done...

However, once I heard this clip;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCZ7AVX6BtI&feature=fvst" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was convinced that HAIL was recorded with the Frankenstrat. I couldn't quite get it clean enough with the SD59, but once I got the DSD, it cemented it for me. I'm actually shocked by how well that PUP cleans up. I could never get it to sound anywhere close with a regular Strat.

If you aren't convinced by my clip that a strat was used on "Hear About It Later" I would suggest trying it out on a standard strat (I assume you own one or can borrow someone else's guitar) as I have using just the flanger and the out-of-phase pickup position as I have described...also the standard strat is full up on the guitar-there is no clean up required because it is an overdubbed guitar dedicated to this sound. I think that the Harmonizer was likely used to fatten up the out-of-phase strat with MXR Flanger sound in the intro and I think that is why you may be perceiving the guitar as being something other than a strat...As the intro ends and the main riff begins, that is where the Frankenstein comes in. Listen to the isolated guitar track and it will help to hear the Harmonizer on the solo and the lead overdubs on the outro...(even though the Guitar Hero tracks choose to isolate selected segments of the overall mix of guitars rather than isolate all the various simultaneous guitar tracks)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zy1D0uH1ys[/youtube]
One thing that I would bear in mind when considering the tones is to use your ears as you say...also it is important to remember that the way an artist plays something live is frequently completely different than how they played it on record. On the Oakland clip it is likely that he is using an Eventide Harmonizer and it's chorus settings-he is not using the flanger for the intro in the Oakland video or anywhere else in the three clips from Oakland. For instance, it is common knowledge that Eddie played the Gibson '58 Korina Flying V on "Hot For Teacher", yet whenever he played it live he used the 5150 Kramer...and the 5150 Kramer sounds nothing like the Flying V on the original recording...

I don't hear any octave on any of the leads/solos in HAIL, but do on the outro solo in STIL. A lot of people think that was done with a Boss pedal but I always thought that it was the Eventide, why use a Boss pedal when you have the high quality ET sitting there?

I think that anybody that thinks Eddie used a Boss Octave pedal for the recording of Fair Warning is totally insane. For one, I don't think the Boss Octave pedal existed in 1981. Secondly, he already had the Eventide Harmonizer...why the hell would he use a Boss Octave pedal if it even existed at the time?!

Once you get the PF and hear the H910 or H949 tones, you can immediately hear what songs they were used on. And I've found that it's a LOT more than I initially thought! But with different settings for different songs. If you're not playing and just listening, it can be pretty tough to hear a -0.998 detune, depending on how much you mix it in. But you sure can feel it, and miss it once you take it away. Then you change the detune to -0.995, mix it in more, and you get a very middle and bridge combined sound, like the intro of HAIL . I'm convinced that the intro and verses of HAIL have Eventide and MXR Flanger, but that the flanger is turned off for the leads/solo.

I agree with you that the Eventide is key to the tones on Fair Warning. I believe I can hear which songs and in which places the Eventide Harmonizer is used on the record...some obvious (the "Unchained" solo and especially the outro leads) and not so obvious (IMHO, the solos in "Hear About It Later")

One question, though. Are you using the flanger settings that are shown just before the clip is played? I have a reissue and I have to turn my speed down to about 10 o'clock to get it to sound right. I hate to say this but maybe I need a vintage one after all. Anybody compare the reissue with the old one, I'll have to go search Youtube

The only Flanger I have ever owned is my original late 70s MXR, but I have tried the Dunlop reissues, (including the EVH) and I have to say that they sound close, but not exactly like the original. Some of the original MXR Flangers have issues and they do suck signal versus the newer ones, but in my opinion the real ones are worth it if you are serious about Van Halen tone. I bought mine for $60 at a pawn shop in 1988. I bought my original script logo Phase 90 for $20 at the same time...and again, the reissues and the modded ones aren't exactly like the originals.
As far as the settings go I would point you to the Dweezil Zappa interview with Ed from the 90s where Ed finally disclosed the setting on the flanger...it was the same for every song from the first Van Halen album through Fair Warning-"Atomic Punk", "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love", the electric piano on "And the Cradle Will Rock...", "Hear About It Later", "Mean Street",etc. All the dials are in the straight up 12 O'Clock position. Ed said that there were no presets in those days and he just pointed them straight up! Pretty funny, but it's true. Try it on an original and you will be shocked at how you will ride the wave exactly like the records with this one setting. He would put duct tape over the knobs on the Flanger to prevent knocking the knobs out of this position in the early days-you can see it in any number of pics from the era. But the proof is in the pudding-get an original or borrow one from somebody and you will be right on every time...

I hope you can drum up the cash at some point to get a PF, after hearing your clips, which I really like by the way (that was you with the LWAN solo, right?), I can see where you will go nuts with it. I'll try to do a clip of STIL and I believe that you will be able to hear that it was the Frankenstrat with Eventide detune, whether it was the H910 or the H949.

Thanks! I hope I can get enough cash together to get the Eventide PitchFactor and the new SpaceReverb too! That is my LWAN solo clip...I know that the outro solo of "So This Is Love" is definitley Eventide...

[vanhalen5150]

Got a pitchfactor rental for the week.$14. Your right about that Krinkle. I have Fair Warning coming out of my cab. Your ear really gets use to it and when you shut it off your tone really diminishes. Time to dig through some old pedals to cash in on one of these units. Going for $540 here. Yikes!