Ed's Echoplex

[leadguy]

Let us know how it works out when you try it.

[Santi]

I think the compressor will work better before the Echoplex. You don't wanna boost the delay, just keep the signal strong.

[Good Guest]

Ha!

I'm going to try it soon.

I'm going to put a CA3080 chip based compressor in front and then after my Echoplex and see what happens.

Same here...I actually tried one of those homebrew la light homebrew compressors years ago ,but the noise wasn't to my liking..but they say the dyna comp is the one all others are judged against so yep I'm gonna dig out my CA3080 chip and give it a try with some 2n5088 transistors....

I wonder if they used the la-2a compressor in the studio?

[T.J.Fuller]

I'm going to say that Ed and Donn Landee relied more on the 1176 units for more the limiting factor of the unit for a bigger sound.I don't think ed or donn was too into post-production compression for guitar

Those La-2a ' s will give a guitar a too compressed smoothed out sound and it takes away the dynamics.
better for vocal and drums even though his 5150 studio pics shows one, along with numerous 1176 units.

In an interview Ed had said he doesnt really like compression ,but I'm sure he meant outboard studio compression ( La-2a)
or over-use of it.

but, this theory on the dynacomp boards or a dynacomp compressor wouldn't wreck a killer guitar tone like some of that outboard gear if used too heavily post -prodution.

Alot of top artists have those early dynacomps on thier pedalboards.

[leadguy]

I connected the whole deal together, Phase->3080 compressor->Echoplex->amp.

I've got a Echoplex EP-4 and no matter what BS is around the net, it sounds similar to a EP-3, it just has a output buffer and a few other changes but still has the FET preamp etc but the EP-4's got a few different knobs for added features to the EP-3 so after looking at Ed's EP-3 photo settings and then working them out on the EP-4 I got near to Ed's EP-3 settings and delay.

I used a recent stock MXR Phase 90 and it's nowhere near Ed's phase 90 and there are good reasons for why because the mid 1970s MXR Phase 90 schematic has hardly anything in common with the recent MXR Phase 90 or the MXR script reissue Phase 90.

The 3080 compressor added to the sustain a lot but didn't kill the dynamics and it sort of enhanced the Strat thing a bit, it's a very interesting combo the Echoplex and 3080 compressor even if there is no connection to Ed, they seem to work well together for Ed type of gain levels and also work well with the Phase.

I used a Epi VJ and this is where the big problem was because it's just not a Plexi with a 4x12 cabinet.

I was trying ATBL and RWTD because of the sustain in the main RWTD riff and also the ATBL Am G chords and end chords sustain and also dialing in the Echoplex for one of the main ATBL repeats which I actually matched to Ed's Echoplex EP-3 settings in the photos which worked right, plus there is another Echoplex EP-3 in ATBL set for a longer delay.
The RWTD main riff sustain was a breeze with the 3080 compressor and so was the ATBL Am G chords and the ATBL ending sustain and the ATBL solo and the RWTD solo sounded sort of right with the 3080 compressor even though my Phase 90 effect was just too strong.

Overall I think I was entering Ed's tone gates but the amp and Phase are a bit of a problem.

[leadguy]

Beacuse the the EP-Pre is a FET preamp with no tape record circuit, I'd try the compressor both in front and after and see what happened.

With a real Echoplex the compressor needs to be in front of the Echoplex because the Echoplex compressor board is before the Echoplexes tape record circuit.

[rgorke]

Is it just the vintage MXR Dyna Comp that has that chip or do the later versions have it?

A guy here locally is selling one for $40 on CL but I think it is a newer version.

Anyone tried the Whirlwind "Red Box" compressor or seen if it has the CA3080 chihp?

I see that MXR has the 1976 Dynacomp and it boasts about having the CA3080 chip?

Why charge twice as much to put a $2.50 chip in it?

(that is a rhetorical question)

[rgorke]

Is it just the vintage MXR Dyna Comp that has that chip or do the later versions have it?

A guy here locally is selling one for $40 on CL but I think it is a newer version.

Anyone tried the Whirlwind "Red Box" compressor or seen if it has the CA3080 chihp?

I see that MXR has the 1976 Dynacomp and it boasts about having the CA3080 chip?

Why charge twice as much to put a $2.50 chip in it?

(that is a rhetorical question)

The new mxr custom shop comp has the CA3080A (metal can version).

That is the "1976" version to which I referred. I cut the custom shop part.

[leadguy]

The Echoplex logos are in the Echoplex Ads from various years.

The Echoplexes with just a small Maestro logo are pre 1977.

The Echoplexes with a wider "Maestro Echoplex" logo are from 1977 and 1978.

The Echoplexes with just a small "Echoplex" logo are from 1979 until the end of the Echoplexes.

Ed's Echoplexes have the wider "Maestro Echoplex" logo that seems to have been introduced with the release of the Echoplex EP-4 model around early 1977 and the EP-3 model also seemed to change to the wider "Maestro Echoplex" at the same time to be in line with the new wider "Maestro Echoplex" logo that the EP-4 had.

Both the EP-3 and EP-4 models were fitted with compressor boards around the time that the EP-4 was introduced and this also seems to be the time when the EP-3 logo switched to the wider "Maestro Echoplex" logo.

So Ed could have bought his EP-3's new and at around the time when they were being fitted with compressor boards as Ed already has a wider "Maestro Echoplex" logo Echoplex in the end of May 1977 Mumps Whisky photo.

End of May 1977 Mumps Whisky photo with Ed's Echoplex having the wider "Echoplex Maestro" logo



Ed's Echoplex with wider "Echoplex Maestro" logo



Small "Maestro" logo





Wider "Maestro Echoplex" logo



Later small "Echoplex" logo



Echoplex 1972 Ad



Echoplex 1973 Ad



Echoplex 1975 Ad



1976 Echoplex with the smaller Maestro logo that this dude bought new in 1976.
The logo change to the wider B&W "Echoplex Maestro" logo had not happened yet.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R651lfBhngo[/youtube]

This is the 1977 Ed logo change.

The EP-4 was introduced with the new wider B&W "Echoplex Maestro" logo change in late 1976/early 1977 and had compressor boards.
The EP-3 was also installed with compressor boards at the same time as the EP-4 and some older smaller "Maestro" logo EP-3 backstock got the compressor board installed for sale in 1977 (EP-3 older logo older stock transition period to newer logo, EP-4 has no transition period and is introduced with the new logo) but the EP-3 generally changes to a wider "Echoplex Maestro" logo in late 1976/early 1977 exactly the same as the EP-4 and this is Ed's early 1977 EP-3 wider "Echoplex Maestro" logo.

Chicken knobs are used on the early wider B&W "Echoplex Maestro" logo EP-3's and EP-4's in late 1976/early 1977 (compressor board EP-3's and EP-4's) and then they change the knobs to a new design sometime in 1977 (see Echoplex 1977 ad).

Ed's EP-3's have chicken knobs and the new wider B&W "Echoplex Maestro" logo indicating that Ed's EP-3's are from late 1976/early 1977 and this was when the compressor boards were being installed into EP-3's and EP-4's.

"EP-4 (late 70s): Around 1976-’77, the Market Electronics/Norlin team introduced another model, without S.O.S., but having bass and treble controls for the echo signal."

http://www.vintageguitar.com/1964/echoplex/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Echoplex 1977 Ad



Echoplex 1978 Ad



Echoplex 1979 Ad

[rgorke]

I had read somewhere that Mike Battle - the originator of the Echoplex - like the tone from the "3 horn" Echoplexes the best.

[jape88]

Sorry to wander on this one... but can anyone tell me roughly how long a tapes last? they see expensive to replace... thinking about getting one.



Thanks LG ... my old wem copycat had a habit now and again of riding up the spool and creasing the tape but a box of tapes for that were pretty cheap.

Back on track now guys... sorry for the wander

[leadguy]

They last a fair while, just like any tape deck tapes or cassette tapes etc.

[rgorke]

Sorry to wander on this one... but can anyone tell me roughly how long a tapes last? they see expensive to replace... thinking about getting one.



Thanks LG ... my old wem copycat had a habit now and again of riding up the spool and creasing the tape but a box of tapes for that were pretty cheap.

Back on track now guys... sorry for the wander

This guy, Regis, has about the best Echoplex site. He has a page on replacing the tape in the cartridges.

http://www.regiscoyne.com/echoplex/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[cerrem]

One thing to note regarding the EP4 units....
There is a trim-pot in the center of the board that is the output gain control....typically this is calibrated so that output is matched to the input levels to avoid insertion loss...this normally leaves the trim-pot somehwere about 2 ...on a scale from 1 to 10...
Soo... the trick back in the day was to tweek the EP4 to be an overdrive unit by cranking up this trim pot ...you would then have a sick amount of overdrive in addition to echo....this overdrive has a bit of a compressed sound when pushing the front of a Marshall 4-holer...
The trim-pot in the upper left corner is the drive level adjust for the LEDs.....no need to monkey with that one..
When I covered the EVH stuff back in the 80's...I did this trick and it worked out pretty good....worth a try....


c.e.r.r.e.m

[jape88]

Soo... the trick back in the day was to tweek the EP4 to be an overdrive unit by cranking up this trim pot ...you would then have a sick amount of overdrive in addition to echo....this overdrive has a bit of a compressed sound when pushing the front of a Marshall 4-holer...
The trim-pot in the upper left corner is the drive level adjust for the LEDs.....no need to monkey with that one..
When I covered the EVH stuff back in the 80's...I did this trick and it worked out pretty good....worth a try....

c.e.r.r.e.m

Neat trick... thanks for sharing Chris


Found this from Keith Barr (mxr) on the dynacomp...
"That's shared between Richard and me; I'd say its more Richard's than mine. But its real close to my heart; I love
that little box. the Dynacomp was so much fun. i really loved compressors; and for an analog engineer making
compressors, a voltage controlled amplifier that really responds the way you want is a tough thing to find.
They're all real noisy or or they've got some problem..... we used what is called the 3080, an operational transconductance amplifier, and developed the Dynacomp around it. It didn't have the best signal-to-noise ratio, but it had a really nice attack characteristic, and I remember that Richard (Neatrou) and I experimented with just what the attack characteristic should be so it really gives you a good edge to a string pluck, and we had a real good time with it. I think if you ask Richard which box he feels closest to, he would say Dynacomp, and I would too.