Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by JimiJames » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:29 pm

Sporting one as of late (since the beginning of the year) and I can tell you through my Superbass it delivers the sound you would expect and as jnew has described.
I'm thinking that he liked the bite of T-Tops more than he did with P.A.F.'s... Lotsa' magnet swapping you would guess...
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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by garbeaj » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:37 pm

Bore 'Em At The Forum's above recap of the likely timeline of Ed's pickup choices from the demo era through the second album and beyond makes to total sense to me.

You CAN clean up a Dimarzio Super Distortion, at least as much as Eddie cleaned up in situations on the first album where he rolled down the volume knob in songs like "Runnin' With The Devil" and "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love". Want proof?

Listen to this clip of me playing some riffs from "Runnin' With The Devil" using my '75-'76 Ibanez Destroyer with a new Dimarzio Super Distortion in the bridge position through my Rockstah Mod 5 Marshall 2x12 combo with 90s reissue 6402 cone Greenback speakers (this is the same setup that Rockstah used for his clips except he used a 4x12 cabinet):

Note that I am able to clean up the sound with my volume knob for the verses to at least the same degree that Eddie did on the Van Halen album version.

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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by Marshall SL12301 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:20 pm

sine_wave wrote:I know I'm probably alone on this one… But all of the pups that Ed used (both black bobbin and cream colored) were Gibson PAFs. Ed had stated his dislike for ceramic magnet Dimarzios (SD) very early on. Also, his cream colored pup had 3 holes in the bobbin just like a vintage PAF should.

To back me up on this, a few years ago they auctioned off an Unkert-made Kramer that Ed used to own. I watched a video of Unkert inspecting it. When the subject of the pickup was raised, he said something like, "it's most likely an original PAF. I used to have a drawer full. That's what Ed liked and wanted in all of his guitars".
Add to that all of the statements SD has made about various PAF rewinds he had done for Ed back in the day.
I also think Ed's subtle change in tone throughout the first 6 albums could have had been a side-effect of having a different grade magnet (Alnico 2, Alnico 5, plus the short magnets that were made post 1962).

I would never believe Ed's incredibly dynamic tone was the result of a ceramic magnet pickup. Listen to how his guitar would clean up when he would bring his volume way down. You can't get that kind of organic action from a brittle sounding ceramic pickup. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. I think guys like the added boost (gain) they give them and then decide "oh yeah, this must be what Ed used". But don't forget… Ed's tone was distorted, but at the same time incredibly clean and articulate. When he'd hit a chord you'd hear every note and they wouldn't clash off each other. I've never heard a ceramic be able to do that. Sorry guys, those are just the things I've experienced as a player as well as the info from Unk and SD and Ed himself! He knew what he wanted. Otherwise why would he take the PAF out of his Gibson 335 and put it into what became his #1, the Franky?
He DID use P.A.F's but not on VH I. Seems you misunderstood what everyone was talking about here.
In the early club days ed is seen sporting Mighty mites and super d's then after they were signed
he contacted seymour and had him wind a "super distortion" type pu that was more middle ground
like a super d meets a P.A.F and the Duncan Custom was born.
After ed threatened to sue duncan for using his name on the duncan custom pu
seymour removed eddie's name and called the pu "The Custom" and the early ad read as follows,
"P.A.F on steroids, This beefed up Patent Applied For tone provides a hard-driving, kickin' sound with the right balance of power, sustain, and distortion. This pickup cuts through with a distinctive high end and midrange attack(sound like anyone's tone you know? :mrgreen: )
Eddie used a STOCK PAF in his 58 flying V(hot for teacher,TOTW) and ES-335(push comes to shove)
but for most other things it was a RE-wound PAF(duncan custom) with various magnets
at some point he swapped the ceramic for the Alnico II in the custom.
My best guess is right after he got his first Floyd rose put on, this would tame the high end and thicken the tone because a floyd can thin the tone somewhat.
R.I.P Mark Abrahamian, You will be remembered!

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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by garbeaj » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:28 am

Marshall SL12301 wrote:Eddie used a STOCK PAF in his 58 flying V(hot for teacher,TOTW) and ES-335(push comes to shove)
but for most other things it was a RE-wound PAF(duncan custom) with various magnets
at some point he swapped the ceramic for the Alnico II in the custom.
When you mentioned that an ES-335 was used on "Push Comes To Shove", I think that you actually meant to say that an ES-335 (or possibly an ES-345 or another Gibson hollowbody) was used for the solo on "And The Cradle Will Rock".

There is no interview in which Eddie said that he used an ES-335 for any part of "Push Comes To Shove".

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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by rdodson » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:51 pm

I was told back when I was doing some work with the band that the PCTS solo was one of Ed's vintage Les Pauls. I wish I could remember who told me.
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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by garbeaj » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:08 am

rdodson wrote:I was told back when I was doing some work with the band that the PCTS solo was one of Ed's vintage Les Pauls. I wish I could remember who told me.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a Les Paul or even a 335, it's just that there has never been an interview to that effect...But I'm pretty sure Marshall SL12301 is thinking of the "And The Cradle Will Rock" solo. That's the only classic Van Halen solo that has ever been mentioned by Eddie as having been played with a 335.

I wouldn't personally trust anyone else but Ed or maybe Donn Landee on what guitars he used on which recordings.

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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by Marshall SL12301 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:35 am

garbeaj wrote:
rdodson wrote:I was told back when I was doing some work with the band that the PCTS solo was one of Ed's vintage Les Pauls. I wish I could remember who told me.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a Les Paul or even a 335, it's just that there has never been an interview to that effect...But I'm pretty sure Marshall SL12301 is thinking of the "And The Cradle Will Rock" solo. That's the only classic Van Halen solo that has ever been mentioned by Eddie as having been played with a 335.

I wouldn't personally trust anyone else but Ed or maybe Donn Landee on what guitars he used on which recordings.
Yeah i just guessed about the "push comes to shove" guitar because it sounds nothing like his strat.
Maybe he used the Les paul? pretty sure whatever the guitar was he had old original P.A.F 's in it.
sure sounds like it..
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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by garbeaj » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:57 pm

Marshall SL12301 wrote:
garbeaj wrote:
rdodson wrote:I was told back when I was doing some work with the band that the PCTS solo was one of Ed's vintage Les Pauls. I wish I could remember who told me.
I'm not saying it couldn't be a Les Paul or even a 335, it's just that there has never been an interview to that effect...But I'm pretty sure Marshall SL12301 is thinking of the "And The Cradle Will Rock" solo. That's the only classic Van Halen solo that has ever been mentioned by Eddie as having been played with a 335.

I wouldn't personally trust anyone else but Ed or maybe Donn Landee on what guitars he used on which recordings.
Yeah i just guessed about the "push comes to shove" guitar because it sounds nothing like his strat.
Maybe he used the Les paul? pretty sure whatever the guitar was he had old original P.A.F 's in it.
sure sounds like it..
If you are talking about just the guitar solo, it sounds like the rest of the distorted guitar on the album to me, just a more melodic solo. But who knows?! It's their greatest album and it is the least discussed in interviews versus the other albums.

Of course the standard Fender strat (with the out-of-phase pickup position selected) is used all over "Push Comes To Shove" for the clean parts with Eventide and flanger.

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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by rdodson » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:37 pm

There's no trem, so it isn't the Frank. It isn't the Strat, and it isn't the hacked-up LP Junior.
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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by garbeaj » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:09 pm

rdodson wrote:There's no trem, so it isn't the Frank. It isn't the Strat, and it isn't the hacked-up LP Junior.
Yep. It could be anything hardtail, but there is absolutely no evidence on what exactly was used.

I agree that it is not the strat used on the rest of the track. Definitely a humbucker. But beyond that, no telling.

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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by sine_wave » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:12 pm

Marshall SL12301 wrote: He DID use P.A.F's but not on VH I.
Wow. That's nuts because I've never heard anything like that before. Since when did the story of him taking the PAF out of his ES-335 and chiseling out his Boogie Body to take it become false? That's the fundamental story of how Franky was 'born'. If he used Franky on VH1 then it's a foregone conclusion he used PAFs on VH1 as well since Franky had his 335's PAF screwed directly into it's body. All this ceramic mag stuff started when people started asking, "why does Eddie's tone change a bit from record to record". That's where I see most people trying to get themselves to believe it so their mind's will rest easy. Meanwhile, there's always one or 2 guys who have it nailed and they try in vain to explain how a different studio/engineer/reel to reel/console/mic position/room acoustics can take a sound and drastically twist it into something else. Of course it can be a beautiful thing, just read the amazing book, "Recording The Beatles" for an inside look at how 5 guys (gotta count George Martin!) took the relatively sparse resources they had and created sounds the world had literally never heard before. But I digress, sorry.

To make matters muddier, I remember at least 2 interviews where Ed blasted ceramic mag pickups, stating flat out how he didn't like them (his words were a bit stronger if I recall correctly). And if I am remembering this right, I believe he even specifically brought up (or the interviewer did) the Dimarzio SD when talking about his 'dislike' for ceramics. I'm sure some of you guys will say stuff like yeah, but that's typical Eddie giving disinformation. Maybe, but I personally doubt it. Ed's tone was always incredibly organic, no matter how distorted it was and I think that was something he strove for. Do you guys seriously think ceramic mag pickups have anything organic about them at all?

BTW, I know the story about SD trying to make a pickup way back when (and Ed got pissed) but who ever said it was ceramic based? It definitely couldn't have been Seymour! I've spoken to SD on many occasions, as well as some of the great people who work for him and he once said that the "PAF on steroids" bit alluded to his idea of an 'overwound' PAF-style pickup. He was fully aware that not every PAF is a winner. The guys that got to play/buy a lot of 'Bursts will be the first to tell you... They are not all created equally. Sometimes it's something they just can't put their finger on (and they don't form a bond with the guitar) and many times it's the pickups. In fact, I remember reading about how right before going on stage, Duane Allman swapped the PAFs out of a Goldtop he had into either the guitar he is most known for (a Les Paul named Hot Lanta) or another Burst he had which had more of a cherry color to it compared to the dark, almost tobacco hues of "Hot Lanta". Point is, he thought the pickups in the Goldtop were so great he wanted them in one of his favorite Bursts (I think he put them in the cherry burst).

The only other solid piece of PAF-proof to share is from what Unkert said to me in an email as well as what he can be heard saying in a video while examining one of Eddie's old Kramer's that was about to be auctioned off. He actually found it amusing (since he knows what PAFs go for these days) that he would always "grab one out of his parts drawer" whenever he was building "a guitar for Eddie".

IMO, the white/cream humbucker that basically lived in the Franky while VH was on tour in 1981 (I think it was '81) was a cream bobbin Gibson PAF. Besides, look at all of the photos of Ed playing Les Pauls live (with just the bridge pickup!)... Do you believe that the vintage LPs he used had PAFs? From memory, I'm 99% sure that LP with no neck pickup is a '57-'60 Standard which means it would've had PAFs. Seems to me like Ed was into the PAF sound! Why else would he say all those years ago how he always wished for a guitar that felt like a Strat but sounded like a Les Paul? Also, what about the sunburst Strat Eddie used to play in clubs with the rosewood fb? I thought that was yet another guitar he hacked up with a chisel so he could install a Gibson PAF? It was unfortunately before my time but going from the things I've heard from guys who were around buying and trading guitars in the '70s, PAFs were everywhere, especially in the '70s. Nobody ever thought a Les Paul would cost almost half a million dollars so people did what they wished and certainly didn't think that one day just one PAF would be able to command a price of $5k.

I really wasn't trying to go against the grain or anything guys. I'm just telling it like I've read and heard it. The people on this forum have been so helpful every time I had a question regarding my 12,000 build and it meant a lot to be treated decently by such experienced people even though I was as green as could be seen. Maybe it's unnecessary, but I just want to make sure that everyone knows (especially those who may not share my POV on this topic) that I post only with good intentions, even if our opinions differ.
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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by jnew » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:31 pm

Well, we're all certainly free to draw whatever inferences we choose based on interview articles, eyewitness accounts, pictures, etc. However, there is no mistaking, based on photo's, that some guitars used MM and DSD pickups back in the day. VH I and earlier, to be more specific. And even after that with some guitars. So that tells me he used them. I mean after all, he had to have a reason to not like them, right? I think VH I is a ceramic magnet type myself. And I call the SD Custom. I'm still trying to procure a MM 1400 to compare but that too has a ceramic magnet. And to answer your question about whether or not you can get an organic tone from a ceramic PU? Well in all fairness, I guess it becomes very specific as to what your definition of organic is but I don't see, or hear, anything about ceramics that can't sound natural or roll off with some nice clean jangle to it. At least that's how I think of organic. 8)
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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by jnew » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:16 pm

Just to clarify, are you accusing me of being "shortsighted" and "kinda dumb" for my previous post?

Secondly, remind me of why Allen is the authority? 8)
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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by jnew » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:05 pm

67 Melody Maker wrote:
jnew wrote:Just to clarify, are you accusing me of being "shortsighted" and "kinda dumb" for my previous post?

Secondly, remind me of why Allen is the authority? 8)
Was actually referring to sine_wave, but whatever.. :lol:

Take it as you like.

I'm familiar w the amp setup you're running. I don't agree about the ceramic mags - I hate the way they sound, but they may work with your amp and the way you're running it... I wouldn't know. Nor do I care.

No disrespect. :peace:

I've got my own opinions on the rig/the tone based on my own experiences. They're worth about as much as anyone else's in the ole EVH fanboi world.

I mentioned Allen because he's the first person here that I've heard tell people that all these pickup threads are useless because it's so dependent upon the amp. :bang:

Like you I'm guessing, I've been reading these EVH pickup threads here for a decade. I found what works for me as far as amp/pickup combination. I think it's very close to what Ed was doing on VHI... and that's the only EVH tone I care about chasing.


I like to take it as you mean it. That's why I asked for clarification.

If you really don't care, why do you assert your opinion?

I don't know what amp/s Allen uses but this called "Eddie Van Halen Amp Builders". There was a time when all of these discussions were based on the circuit that Eddie's amp was. Or some variation thereof, given that 68 was a transitional period for the Marshall Plexi's. It was a given during that time. Pickup discussions had meaning. Everyone I remember either had, (Like Ralle, Plexified and a few others) or built (Like Mark Abrahamian, Rob Galpin, MightyMike, JimiJames, Strat78, VanHalen5150, Mr. Twistyneck, Kevin Holbrook, Robert Watson, Eric Fraser, myself and too many others to remember and name) actually took time to use or build this proper platform. So I'm not understanding someone who comes in to an "Eddie Van Halen Amp Builders" forum, where everyone is using or building Eddie's platform amp, to say "that these pickup threads are useless because it's so dependent on the amp". Do you see the point here? This IS the place for THE amp. Or should I say it WAS the place for THE amp. But you go right ahead man. Build what Allen has built and believe it like he was the one who changed Rock and Roll guitar playing as we know it. 8)
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Re: Mighty Mite MFG 8.6k...

Post by jnew » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:13 am

Incoherent? :lol:

Simple reasoning here. Which you don't seem to get. It's cool man. All good.
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