EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

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donnyboiler
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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by donnyboiler » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:28 pm

I just run a Nova System with mine. I use the Nova to switch channels, I run the blue gain at half (which is perfect for VHII/Fair Warning), and I use the compressor on the Nova System to add about 7dB as well as some extra warmth/sustain to my clean patches. As a bonus I can add some extra sparkly highs to my cleans too if I want. This turns a great amp into a world class channel switcher. The clean is breathtaking when treated right - and let's face it, you'd eq and compress those cleans in the studio anyway.

The Nova System sucks zero tone too.

Of course I don't have to do any of this on the 100 watter but hey, that's big and heavy and needs to be cranked a bit. This thing is awesome. Oh, the red channel - metal and shredding only for me, or maybe F.U.C.K era. It RIPS.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I compared the schematics http://www.evhgear.com/en-GB/support/ and they are identical apart from the green channel tone stack (which is obviously running on blue specs in the 50w), the voltage divider which sends way too much gain to the blue channel vs the green channel on the 50w, and one other resistor difference where the green and blue channels split off after V1b IIRC. The preamps are otherwise identical. Oh yeah, there's one resistor different in the 50w red channel on one of the later stages which would explain the higher gain. These amps have maybe three components different in the whole preamp if you don't count the fact that green shares the blue tone stack in the 50w.

If I was modding mine I'd go for the voltage divider R79 like evh0u812. This will increase green channel gain though. I'll let someone else take over from here, I can read a circuit diagram but I'm not a tech.

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by Gorditas » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:33 am

I have done some searching, and am considering doing this MOD. Are you still happy with it? Had any problems?

xhennex wrote:Hey,

I heated up my iron today and found out that a change of R88 (47k) to 330k-380k eliminates the volume jump. :rock:
My Preference is pulling out one contact of R88 and putting a 330k in series wich gives ~380k,
wich I tried out with a 500k pot.
Increasing R88 lowers the volume of channel 2.
At first it seams to lower the bottom end but this was just the decreased level.
I cannot find any difference in sound.
For me the best settings are:
GAIN: 9-12
LOW: 12
MID: 12
HIGH:10
VOLUME:9-12

Regards,
Henne

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by cruisemates » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:18 pm

xhennix said....
I heated up my iron today and found out that a change of R88 (47k) to 330k-380k eliminates the volume jump. :rock:
My Preference is pulling out one contact of R88 and putting a 330k in series wich gives ~380k,
wich I tried out with a 500k pot.
Increasing R88 lowers the volume of channel 2.
At first it seams to lower the bottom end but this was just the decreased level.
I cannot find any difference in sound.
For me the best settings are:
GAIN: 9-12
LOW: 12
MID: 12
HIGH:10
VOLUME:9-12
I tried the same mod, and here is what I found. Keep in mind that the way players uses an amp makes all the difference. I tend to go with higher gain for channel 2, which meant my clean sound would crunch a little too much for me.

Background: I play an HH PRS 408, lead guitar. It has sort of a thicker les Paul sound. I use Greenback speakers. I am almost always on the gain channel rarely go clean - because of the volume drop. I was using an MXR EQ in the loop to compensate for the volume drop.

The problem was that I could not easily switch back to lead without hitting three pedals; channel switch (2 to 1), turn off the EQ boost for channel 1 and the boost pedal I use on leads on chnl 2.

This mod helped but here is what I found. Yes, it does almost equalize the volume between 1 and 2, but soundwise I like more gain (crunch) an channel two. The mod seemed to take a LOT of gain out of both channels. But, the cure is to turn up the gain knob.

I used to run my gain at about 1:00 - 2:30. Those who say there is no volume difference between chnls 1 &2 when the gain is past 12:00 are completely off base IMO. The volume difference is still huge at any setting.

There was another affect to channel 2: it made it sound far more brittle to me. It seemed to push the whole tone stack towards the brittle mid range. I didn't feel like I could get enough bass (not unusual for me on this amp), but I also turned down the treble and the presence knobs considerably from where they usually sit after this mod:

The fix is a good one, but it does change the flavor of the amp. The clean sound is actually better IMO - a little more Mike Campbell - more bite (remember I am saying I now have my gain on full, not between 9-12 as the OP said, I found that to be for too little gain for either channel, but especially channel 2.) But I feel I lost some grit on channel two, some of the fullness and a little too brittle. Yes, I can EQ differently and almost get back to where I was - but to say it does not change the tone stack in not true (IMO).
Last edited by cruisemates on Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by cruisemates » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:02 pm

I just want to update my post above - everything was true, until I changed some tubes. I had Ruby 6L6s (not JJs) - I restored the JJ power tubes and I still have JJs ECC83 all around- except for a Mullard and Amperex in 1 & 2. (this is what I have now, not what I had when I had changed some tubes out from the stock tubes when the amp was not yet modded).

Here is what I found, - the JJ tubes made a much bigger difference than I expected and from what I had heard in the past. I now have my ch 1&2 Gain at noon, bass full on, mids noon, treble noon and presence noon. Rarely do I ever get an amp dialed in where everything is at noon. So, I am happy with this mod now.

Furthermore, I find the volume between ch 1 & 2 is almost exactly even with gain at noon.

A new benefit is that the graphic EQ I was using to boost the clean channel can now stay on all the time and that adds a ton of dimension to the overall sound.

Finally - I almost never used the blue channel (3) because it is too gainy & noisy for me. Now I can use it with the gain just barely on (at 7:00) and it is a good rhythm alternative to channel two. You get a lot more bass from this channel than from 2. And with the gain near off, the residual noise is not bad at all. I now have all three channels balanced in tone, which makes me pretty happy - especially with the 10-band graphic on full-time to really shape the tone.
Last edited by cruisemates on Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by Santi » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:15 am

sorry but I need to ask you guys:
instead of modding the amp, wouldn't it just be easier to only use channel 2 and 3 of the amp, place an EQ pedal pefore the amp and dial it in a way that drops the gain down? If you use a boss GE-7, turn the volume on the pedal down when you're using the blue channel and EQ the sound so it's a convincing clean sound.
Whether you like it or not the EVH 5150III 50 watts is not really a 3 channels amp.... if it was the EVH people would have done something for the volume drop....

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by donnyboiler » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:00 pm

Yeah but who wants two clicks instead of one?

With MIDI and a 'clean patch' it's a perfect three channel amp.

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by cruisemates » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:03 pm

donnyboiler wrote:Yeah but who wants two clicks instead of one?

With MIDI and a 'clean patch' it's a perfect three channel amp.
I agree - I need to look into the midi a little more. Does you midi save volume, tone, (all settings) in every clean patch? Curious why they only put it in the 50-watt version.

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by donnyboiler » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:46 am

No, the MIDI in the amp is basically like a built in Amp Gizmo, so it just tells the amp what channel to be on depending on which MIDI patch is selected. So if you get a nice transparent-sounding processor like the Nova System (mine is 99.9%
transparent and anyone who tells you otherwise is setting up their levels wrong) you can do what I do, which is this:

1. Put the Nova System or whatever in your amp's loop. Connect it via the line in so you have the drive circuitry disengaged and your signal path is as pure as possible.

2. Connect a MIDI cable from the MIDI out of the Nova to the MIDI in of the amp.

3. Set your 5153 to the maximum volume you ever need it at (so "loud gig" volume, I find that the channel volumes at 12 'o' clock is perfect as it's louder than I ever need). Set your channel one gain to somewhere around half, where your green channel should be clean and your blue channel should be around Early VH territory.

4. Set your levels properly. Use the manual, you have to get a signal that's hot enough to preserve signal quality but not hot enough to distort the Nova's input. Turn the Nova's overall volume down first if you want to preserve your ears!

5. Create a red patch (let's say bank 0 patch 3). Turn every effect on the Nova System off, use the 5153 manual to program your amp onto channel 3, five seconds' work, done.

6. Create a blue patch (let's say bank 0 patch 2). As above but use the blue channel.

7. Create a green patch (say bank 0 patch 1). As above, using the green channel, but this time engage the compressor module. I use the advanced one which gives me access to more parameters but you don't have to. Add compression to taste (you can set everything to zero if you don't want any) and then use the compressor level control to add 5dB or whatever it takes to match this patch to your other patches. Bear in mind this is all dependent on the overall volume of your amp, this is why you set your max available volume FIRST.

8. Use the overall output volume on the Nova System to bring the master volume of your amp to where you need it. This is two clicks and it has the added advantage that now you have an MV and you don't need to mess with your channel volumes. You don't want to now anyway because it will mess up all the time you just spent on step 7.

9. Create variations of these patches at will - clean with verb, rhythm with slap, lead with verb and long delay, whatever, and store them elsewhere on the Nova in a way that makes sense to you.



Your dry patches should sound exactly like the amp alone. Mine do, allowing for the tiniest bit of high frequency rolloff with the extra cables in the loop, you can compensate with the tiniest tweak of the amp's presence control. Anyone who tells you there is a noticeable difference is not reading their Nova's manual properly or isn't using good quality cables in their loop.

If you prefer your cleans uncompresssed, there is an even simpler procedure whereby you use the patch level control (not the overall level control) to add the required number of dBs. The rest of the steps are the same.

If you prefer your cleans a bit dirty, just set them that way at the start and do everything else the same.

If you prefer your cleans with a bit of extra high end sparkle (I do), engage the Nova's EQ module and add some highs around 8k. Works like a charm. Do the compressing and level compensation first so you know what you're working with. I love this because now I can record my cleans without having to compress and eq them after the fact.

Honestly, this is the best "mod" going for a 50w EVH. The only thing you can't do is change the relationship between the gains of the green and blue channels. This would require modding the voltage divider R79.

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by EJSLPlexi » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:50 am

I can get a 50 watt head in excellent condition? is it worth $600?

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by donnyboiler » Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:30 am

I'm not sure with exchange rates etc. but in the UK they go for £550 all day, which makes that a pretty good deal, right?

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by erigm » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:22 pm

Check out this link:

http://www.voodooamps.com/home/Modifica ... fault.aspx

You can get your pots from them. It says so on the page.
erigm

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by ledvedder » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:34 am

evh0u812 wrote:Sure.
Green/Blue channel-
10k voltage divider to 42k
This raises the clean level and increase gain slightly.

250pf mica on the 100k plate of the second triode.
Smoothes out top end on the blue channel.

Red channel -
Removed the 2 1uf cathode bypass caps C16 and C30.
Lowers the gain and makes the gain pot more useable across the range.

Replace 47pf on the PI with 100pf.

Still looking at the power supply filtering, but thats it for now.
I realize this is an old post, but there pictures available of the mods done? Some of the companies that offer these mods are charging hundreds of dollars for them, but they sound fairly easy to perform on my own.

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by hammered » Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:11 pm

bmf5150 wrote:If any of you guys have some extra 6ca7, try them in the the 5153..you might like it...:-)
bumping this 2yr old post but 6CA7 tubes can be run safely in the 50 watt ?

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by dirty dog » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:57 am

You would need a few resistors to be changed and would have to check whether the power transformer will provide the extra current needed for the filaments of the 6CA7. The 6L6 draws 0.9A where as the 6CA7 draws 1.5A so you would need an extra capacity of 1.2A on the 50 and 2.4A on the 100.

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Re: EVH 5150 III: 50 vs 100 watt

Post by ledvedder » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:26 am

Does anyone have pictures of the mods?

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