How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Moderators: VelvetGeorge, RACKSYSTEMS
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5054
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:36 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 7
- Location: Drontheim. Norwegen
- Contact:
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
What about using the JTM mixer specs (270Ks and 500is ph cap) instead of the 330pf & 470Ks? Any why not use a 5nf bright cap on the bass/jtm circuit like marshall did on the first superleads in mid 67? With these specs I don't see the need for the bypass cap on v2a (but I'm not an EVH expert either). Anyway 1967 specs with 5nf bright cap and volume turned to 7 (or tend to sound great
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Super 100 amps: 1202-119 & 1202-84
JTM45 RS OT JTM50 JMP50 1959/2203/34/39
http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Super 100 amps: 1202-119 & 1202-84
JTM45 RS OT JTM50 JMP50 1959/2203/34/39
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 793
- Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:54 pm
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Damn, that sounds good. I can see what you mean about the frequencys being right. How does this setup take to pedals up front (phase 90, etc.,)? Also, any ground loop issues?Ralle wrote:After trying and testing I've come to the conclusion that there probably weren't any brightcap on the mixer in Nr2... That would fit the PA amp, but then again, if the Friedman amp was used on the first album, maybe that small change was the lifting of the 470k/500pF brightcap... This would only fit if having the amp running as Nr2, plus hitting it in the normal channel. The leadvolume on Nr2 is off ( probably... )
Here'e another clip... just getting started...
https://soundcloud.com/rallep/atomic-punk-test
- Ralle
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1557
- Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:23 am
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
I would love to try one, I think it would do just fine... one thing about having pedals in front would be more cable, wich means less signal, wich would suit this perpous perfectly... take some of the edge off and get it back with the pedal ( phase 90, since having that one on but no rotation ) getting some bite back into the amp... that bite would probably be better for the sound than the normal edge from the amp itself... just a theory
No groundloop issues... not that I can hear...
No groundloop issues... not that I can hear...
- mightymike
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3757
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:53 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Contact:
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
I was wrong earlier. It was the M e rr en/ Plaap spec on every thing except v1 was split not shared in that clip.
I have another amp I built with an Dagnall SL OT from a 67 PA, and a laydown PT from a 69 that is the M e rr e n / Plaap spec on everything except that the presence has the .68 circuit, and I have an off value on each power tube instead of the 2 ) 1.5 K resisters. (For stability)
I just did an A/B of my 68 Plexi serial 12369 and that 67/69 build last night, and they are so close in tone it's crazy. The 68 has the typical values. Later tone stack, .02uf Output couplers, .002uf after the first stage ...yada yada
The 68 is just a hair brighter. I think I actually like Marshall Parts build better. Enough so that after I restore and cherry out the 68, I might sell it.
I have another amp I built with an Dagnall SL OT from a 67 PA, and a laydown PT from a 69 that is the M e rr e n / Plaap spec on everything except that the presence has the .68 circuit, and I have an off value on each power tube instead of the 2 ) 1.5 K resisters. (For stability)
I just did an A/B of my 68 Plexi serial 12369 and that 67/69 build last night, and they are so close in tone it's crazy. The 68 has the typical values. Later tone stack, .02uf Output couplers, .002uf after the first stage ...yada yada
The 68 is just a hair brighter. I think I actually like Marshall Parts build better. Enough so that after I restore and cherry out the 68, I might sell it.
- JimiJames
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3550
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:32 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Location: Chicago
- Contact:
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Was the '68 spec 250pF/556pF/56k ? How did the 33k come into play again ?Roe wrote:What about using the JTM mixer specs (270Ks and 500is ph cap) instead of the 330pf & 470Ks? Any why not use a 5nf bright cap on the bass/jtm circuit like marshall did on the first superleads in mid 67? With these specs I don't see the need for the bypass cap on v2a (but I'm not an EVH expert either). Anyway 1967 specs with 5nf bright cap and volume turned to 7 (or tend to sound great
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5054
- Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:36 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 7
- Location: Drontheim. Norwegen
- Contact:
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
the 33k was introduced in 68JimiJames wrote:Was the '68 spec 250pF/556pF/56k ? How did the 33k come into play again ?Roe wrote:What about using the JTM mixer specs (270Ks and 500is ph cap) instead of the 330pf & 470Ks? Any why not use a 5nf bright cap on the bass/jtm circuit like marshall did on the first superleads in mid 67? With these specs I don't see the need for the bypass cap on v2a (but I'm not an EVH expert either). Anyway 1967 specs with 5nf bright cap and volume turned to 7 (or tend to sound great
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Super 100 amps: 1202-119 & 1202-84
JTM45 RS OT JTM50 JMP50 1959/2203/34/39
http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Super 100 amps: 1202-119 & 1202-84
JTM45 RS OT JTM50 JMP50 1959/2203/34/39
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1577
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:34 am
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Location: Front Row Seat From the Outer Continental Shelf
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
OK, so let's recap and clarify here. So the 1st head.
Basically Bass spec with:
100pF bright cap.
.022 first stage couplers.
Shared cathode.
330pF mixer.
56K/250pF tone stack.
.68 V2 bypass.
.1 PI output couplers and 100pF PI fizzy cap. (or is it the normal 47pF)
16uF - pre amp.
16uF - screens.
32uF - PI and 50uF - mains. Is this right?
Secondly, the re-amp head is basically the 2003 PA head. Pretty much a power amp only if I remember correctly.
How are you loading the first head? Are you using the Marshall Power Brake as a dummy?
Basically Bass spec with:
100pF bright cap.
.022 first stage couplers.
Shared cathode.
330pF mixer.
56K/250pF tone stack.
.68 V2 bypass.
.1 PI output couplers and 100pF PI fizzy cap. (or is it the normal 47pF)
16uF - pre amp.
16uF - screens.
32uF - PI and 50uF - mains. Is this right?
Secondly, the re-amp head is basically the 2003 PA head. Pretty much a power amp only if I remember correctly.
How are you loading the first head? Are you using the Marshall Power Brake as a dummy?
________________________________
I SEE THINGS BETTER, WHEN I LISTEN
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1214336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I SEE THINGS BETTER, WHEN I LISTEN
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1214336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1673
- Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:28 pm
- Location: chicago, IL
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Hey Ralle great to see you. It's been a long time and this topic is interesting. I think when you first started posting clips you had plaap specs in your amp. I still maintain to this day the best clip you ever posted was with your amp with the Jose master.
The amp in the tolex stripped headbox that seems to always be along side 12301 in 1977 1978 I believe Dave Friedman confirmed was a stock Super Bass possibly a Superlead that I assume was one that he was reamping with. Mike Soldano once stated Ed brought in a Super Bass spec head and ran the Variac down to around 85 volts and it sounded like classic Ed I am sure I am paraphrasing. I am sure you are referring to the Pics of the Pasedena Civic Fall of 1977 That had 12301 along side the bare wood head with two Variacs on top, this head kept appearing through the 78 tour and later.
You have to ask yourself why would he bring two variacs? For what purpose? Why would Ed have to re-amp and dimed 100 watt Marshall for a live show? They all couldn't be his main amp so obviously the other were used to re-amp. My conclusions are after all this time he needed to reamp the main head because when variaced down to the tone he liked the amp didn't have enough volume to play live, hence the reamping by other SL/SB, musicmans, then H&H's later on. There might have been a time like the Largo 82 tone where he deviated to just a cranked 100 watt Marshall because of the lack of gain, clarity and stiffness of the tone exhibited there. I think almost all the avenues and pieces of the tone have been explored here at Metro and as always it's just putting the pieces together like you are doing. My guess would be the Jose 12301 into a SB reamping, now Ed could switch it up as you have with no deleterious affects on his tone IMO. My god this is a Plexified Post! LOL!
The amp in the tolex stripped headbox that seems to always be along side 12301 in 1977 1978 I believe Dave Friedman confirmed was a stock Super Bass possibly a Superlead that I assume was one that he was reamping with. Mike Soldano once stated Ed brought in a Super Bass spec head and ran the Variac down to around 85 volts and it sounded like classic Ed I am sure I am paraphrasing. I am sure you are referring to the Pics of the Pasedena Civic Fall of 1977 That had 12301 along side the bare wood head with two Variacs on top, this head kept appearing through the 78 tour and later.
You have to ask yourself why would he bring two variacs? For what purpose? Why would Ed have to re-amp and dimed 100 watt Marshall for a live show? They all couldn't be his main amp so obviously the other were used to re-amp. My conclusions are after all this time he needed to reamp the main head because when variaced down to the tone he liked the amp didn't have enough volume to play live, hence the reamping by other SL/SB, musicmans, then H&H's later on. There might have been a time like the Largo 82 tone where he deviated to just a cranked 100 watt Marshall because of the lack of gain, clarity and stiffness of the tone exhibited there. I think almost all the avenues and pieces of the tone have been explored here at Metro and as always it's just putting the pieces together like you are doing. My guess would be the Jose 12301 into a SB reamping, now Ed could switch it up as you have with no deleterious affects on his tone IMO. My god this is a Plexified Post! LOL!
- mightymike
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3757
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:53 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Contact:
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
What pickup and speakers are you using on this clip?
- plexified
- Senior Member
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:49 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Location: amidst the wreckage of a hot Plexi
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Ralle ,
that is some monster tone as usual right their bro. I have also heard your clips from day one and they all have killer quality , and now you span the whole gammit . That's the bottom that rgalpin and I always drool over. You got it. When I messed with the 8 gauge strings for that 'all in' goofin around deal I was able to turn up more without the flub and it actually gives you more bottom end range of tone. I also wound up at 27k on the feedback resistor.
I am on both sides of the fence too. Loved all the specs , it is like a journey . I can see how Ed was constantly tweaking. He was doing exactly what your doing Ralle. No matter what spec you both always have good tone. Wait til you get two variacs going on one head! Just that pic with those stacks of heads and two variacs on the side of the stage is even more amazing now. Because we can all imagine how many different ways they could be linked up. All just sounding amazing.
But yeah man , great tone and definitely another tier to your arsenal.
Old plexis never die , they just keep sounding better and better .
that is some monster tone as usual right their bro. I have also heard your clips from day one and they all have killer quality , and now you span the whole gammit . That's the bottom that rgalpin and I always drool over. You got it. When I messed with the 8 gauge strings for that 'all in' goofin around deal I was able to turn up more without the flub and it actually gives you more bottom end range of tone. I also wound up at 27k on the feedback resistor.
I am on both sides of the fence too. Loved all the specs , it is like a journey . I can see how Ed was constantly tweaking. He was doing exactly what your doing Ralle. No matter what spec you both always have good tone. Wait til you get two variacs going on one head! Just that pic with those stacks of heads and two variacs on the side of the stage is even more amazing now. Because we can all imagine how many different ways they could be linked up. All just sounding amazing.
But yeah man , great tone and definitely another tier to your arsenal.
Old plexis never die , they just keep sounding better and better .
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1577
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:34 am
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Location: Front Row Seat From the Outer Continental Shelf
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Ralle, you could very well be right on the money about this. I put this spec to my piece of crap, first amp build 50 watt today. It has a tube rectifier but all else is to spec except the 100K NFB resistor, which is the only thing I forgot to change and didn't realize till after I made this clip. I just barely put a bump to the front end with the old blue MXR 6 band to get the sustain a little closer but other than that, it sounds like this. No eq in post. Just an SM-57 and a little reverb in post. Delay was in front of the amp. I'm loving it.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=13524022
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=13524022
________________________________
I SEE THINGS BETTER, WHEN I LISTEN
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1214336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I SEE THINGS BETTER, WHEN I LISTEN
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1214336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- mightymike
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3757
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:53 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Contact:
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Sounds damn good brotha It really cuts through the mix more than your other clips, and the voicing still sounds spot on. I'd be curious how the full conversion with the 330uf on v2 and 100k NFB would sound. In my experience, 50 waters flub out with anything over ,68uf on v2 with the M e r r e n/ Plaap spec. I tried this spec on a 50 watt for a member here and had to lower it.
- echoplexi1974
- Senior Member
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:45 am
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Location: Castle Grayskull
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Sounds killer!jnew wrote:Ralle, you could very well be right on the money about this. I put this spec to my piece of crap, first amp build 50 watt today. It has a tube rectifier but all else is to spec except the 100K NFB resistor, which is the only thing I forgot to change and didn't realize till after I made this clip. I just barely put a bump to the front end with the old blue MXR 6 band to get the sustain a little closer but other than that, it sounds like this. No eq in post. Just an SM-57 and a little reverb in post. Delay was in front of the amp. I'm loving it.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=13524022
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1673
- Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:28 pm
- Location: chicago, IL
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Really sounds great JNEW! I'm not sure if you ever read some old post where Robin L claims the reamp heads were reconfigured as poweramp heads by Jose. I was using my original 72 SL to reamp and liked it but I do like the two variacs setup as it reproduces the correct feedback easily at lower volume levels that I can't reproduce reamping.
Here's the thread in Mark A's Slaving a Plexi project. The posts start on Page 20. I though it might be fun reading since Ralle brought this back up.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21330
Here's the thread in Mark A's Slaving a Plexi project. The posts start on Page 20. I though it might be fun reading since Ralle brought this back up.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21330
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1577
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:34 am
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Location: Front Row Seat From the Outer Continental Shelf
Re: How many have tried the Plaap/****** speq?
Thanks guys. I've since changed the NFB to a 47K. Made it a little tighter and maybe a tad less gain but there's plenty on tap to work with as VOL I was only on 4 when I made this clip. Now I can get by with it on around 5 or 6. Beyond that, same old story. It starts to come apart even with the bass on 0-1. Maybe 27K?
Anyway, I like this bass think a lot now and am boxing her up.
Anyway, I like this bass think a lot now and am boxing her up.
________________________________
I SEE THINGS BETTER, WHEN I LISTEN
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1214336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I SEE THINGS BETTER, WHEN I LISTEN
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1214336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;