Amps and Bands

AnotherBrother · Post by **AnotherBrother** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:48 pm

Ok, here's a good philosophical question for amp builders in regards to live sound.

Have you ever run into the problem of your amp (whatever it is) is sounding totally amazing to you while you're playing it alone, but then somehow just isn't there when you're playing with the rest of the band?

I'm curious to see what people have done to remedy the situation, especially if you just built your own amp. It can be frighteningly disappointing and can cause you to doubt everything. Kinda like Britney Spears lately

From All American Playboy centerfold cheerleader to....

For me, every amp I've had sounds way better alone than with the band.
It's hard to tell if it's just eq and tone, or if it's the way the amp responds to higher volumes.

I understand live sound is tricky and never perfect, but surely you should be happy with your tone no matter where you are, especially when all the instruments are NOT going through a PA.

I'm guessing Ed always had Alex around to test his tone with drums etc.

Anyways, I really looking forward to the responses.

Thanks boyz.

JimiJames · Post by **JimiJames** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:39 pm

(This was taken from Forum: Pedals and other gear Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:37 pm Subject: To reverb or not)

JimiJames wrote: Where you place your amp, room size, carpet, floor, ceiling, walls and even the amount people in the room has its affects.
Once people start filling the room it all changes. When you gig out, those same settings don't mean shit. New place - new settings.
.

When you play with other musicians they "borrow" frequencies that your on and have a cancelling effect on your lows mids & highs.

For Example :
I love listening to players that use a Super. They seem to cut through those illusive freq's and sound great all night.
Where as to the guys who play through a Twin or Deluxe seem to come in and out during the tune or seperate tunes altogether.
Well now, your gonna have to "work" that amp boy!

BrownSound1 · Post by **BrownSound1** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:59 am

Blame it on the sound guy, that's what I do.

Not only do you have to fight for highs and mids, you also have the low end that gets yanked as well. Drums and bass totally make that smooth low end go away, so that "chug" you normally hear out of that 4x12 becomes more of a "ch." I used to have that problem when playing a Les Paul a lot too. Now I play Fender types most of the time, and if nothing is cutting through, then it is time to break out the Tele.

AnotherBrother · Post by **AnotherBrother** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:45 am

BrownSound1 wrote:Blame it on the sound guy, that's what I do.

Not only do you have to fight for highs and mids, you also have the low end that gets yanked as well. Drums and bass totally make that smooth low end go away, so that "chug" you normally hear out of that 4x12 becomes more of a "ch." I used to have that problem when playing a Les Paul a lot too. Now I play Fender types most of the time, and if nothing is cutting through, then it is time to break out the Tele.

So with those guitar changes, sounds like you're avoiding the frequencies you're in battle with.
It makes perfect sense, unless you're going for a heavy bottom end hard rock sound.

It's too bad you can't just go over and eq the damn bass yourself.
The worst is watching your bass player constantly walk over to his amp to turn it up during the show.
Yeah, like you can't hear the frickin' bass!

AnotherBrother · Post by **AnotherBrother** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:49 am

I'm a bit surprised I'm not getting many replies.
You would think that would irk the crap out of amp guru's.

johniss0001 · Post by **johniss0001** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:16 am

bass players now adays are bad for "serious" bass and lack of treble and mid range for my liking, I like my bass guitar to be quite trebly with rich mids and less bass cause that is how they did it in the day well whenever i hear records that is what it sounds like correct me if i'm wrong chaps

AnotherBrother · Post by **AnotherBrother** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:24 am

johniss0001 wrote:bass players now adays are bad for "serious" bass and lack of treble and mid range for my liking, I like my bass guitar to be quite trebly with rich mids and less bass cause that is how they did it in the day well whenever i hear records that is what it sounds like correct me if i'm wrong chaps

That's cool, I like that sound, except for the time this one bass player thought he was a guitar player and was playing leads all the time with a pick, and with that mid-range tone he was competing with the guitar.

johniss0001 · Post by **johniss0001** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:25 am

i'm bad for that sort of thing to but my mids ain't high enough to do that and i sometimes play bass with a distortion pedal

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:53 pm

check your phase relationships, you could just be out of phase with someone on stage and cancelling you out at certain freq's.

otherswise, overcome it with volume....turn 'er up!

-Andy

Flames1950 · Post by **Flames1950** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:09 pm

AnotherBrother wrote:
johniss0001 wrote:bass players now adays are bad for "serious" bass and lack of treble and mid range for my liking, I like my bass guitar to be quite trebly with rich mids and less bass cause that is how they did it in the day well whenever i hear records that is what it sounds like correct me if i'm wrong chaps
That's cool, I like that sound, except for the time this one bass player thought he was a guitar player and was playing leads all the time with a pick, and with that mid-range tone he was competing with the guitar.

Conversely, that's what I don't like about most modern guitar amps, they pump so damn much lows that the bass has nowhere to go.

JimiJames · Post by **JimiJames** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:56 am

Flames1950 wrote:
Conversely, that's what I don't like about most modern guitar amps, they pump so damn much lows that the bass has nowhere to go.

"Ladies and Gentlemen... Step right up and listen to me play my 2006 Poser amp
and watch my balls swell to the sound of SubSonic Power Chords"....Kinda like that huh?
I just Love marketing...

tonejones · Post by **tonejones** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:47 pm

Some interesting subject matter here, which I got a bit of an education on last night......

I went and layed down some tracks at a friend's house last night for a song written by a local guy (my bud's got a really sweet BOSS 16 track digital recorder BTW).

Anyway....long story short......

He's started to use a software program named Spectral/Spectrum?? (is like a more budget friendly version of Spectra-Foo) which takes 2 tracks or more and compares their sonic signatures to each other.

This really shows where 2 instruments argue with each other at the same freq. (both tracks producing say alot at 500k for example) and also where holes are in the freq. spectrum.

He showed me an example of the oldest dilemma ever: bass and kick drum.

By looking at the readout, he experimented by boosting the freq. of bass or kick where there were holes in the freq. spectrum and reducing others where they argued a bit with fantastic sounding results.....

Really interesting stuff.....

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:45 pm

Tonejones,

Was it this program? http://www.visualizationsoftware.com/gram.html

tonejones · Post by **tonejones** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:23 am

I believe so (can't say 100% for sure, but it sure looks the same)....