Legality question......

[jbutler]

Hi all! It seems this little amp building/tweaking hobby of mine has gone places I didn’t really expect it to. My only full, from the ground up build has been my personal 12 series, but since then, to my surprise I’ve actually made some side money working on amps (Biasing, re-capping, rebuilds etc.) I’ve even got a few people thinking about me doing full builds for them. It’s made me think about trying to get a bit deeper into it and maybe making it an official part time business....... Nothing too serious to begin with, but it would be nice to make some supplemental income doing something I enjoy anyway! And while I’ve got a long, LONG way to go before I’d be even remotely in the same league as a George or Larry, you have to start somewhere!

I’ve also been toying with the idea of building something of my own design..... nothing revolutionary; mainly tried and true ideas tailored to my tastes and with features I’d like. Some of the guys whose amps I’ve worked on expressed interest when we’ve talked about this.

So anyway, here’s my question: if I ever take it to this level business-wise (and that’s a big “IF”) what are the legal ramifications? I mean, all over this board we’re building circuits based on or duplicating old Marshalls and whatnot; are the lawyers going to be pounding down my door with patent infringement lawsuits if I’m building clones or if my design resembles another too closely. Obviously, plenty of people are already doing this to one level or another, but where exactly does it figure legally? All patents past expiration date? What gives?

[paulster]

You would need to watch for patent infringements since these would easily put you out of business trying to defend them. Mesa has filed loads of dubious ones but the legal costs you'd rack up trying to fight them wouldn't be worth the effort, so stay well away from these.

The only major issue you're going to run into is legal liability.

This means if someone's child burns themselves on a tube for instance and you haven't provided adequate protection against this you could get sued. Even if not by the first owner who knew you, but by a subsequent owner that doesn't know what a stand-up guy you are.

The same would apply to if your amp caught fire and wasn't certified by UL or a similar equivalent which effectively warrants that it is safe for use.

In Europe we have CE certification and it is illegal to sell (or import) any product which doesn't meet CE legislation. So this means that a large number of very popular high end American boutique amps have all been sold illegally here through their distributors since they don't carry CE marks and this could end up with severe ramifications for them or their distributors if they ever get caught.

RoHS is another similar issue which also affects all of Europe, is coming to California and will likely follow to the remainder of the US in due course.

I would certainly be wanting to trade through a limited liability company if I was going to be selling amps commercially because the personal risks are so high.

[Structo]

If that was the case then the lawyers would have knocked on Mr. Marshall's door back in 1963.
There isn't a lot of new designs in the last 50 years, perhaps power scaling attributed to Mr. O'Connor and a few to Randall Smith.

[demonufo]

Good point, did Fender sue Marshall?

[Structo]

I don't believe so.
The circuits that Leo used were public domain found in the old tube manuals.

[demonufo]

Exactly my point.
There was nothing new in the Marshall circuits, just a fair bit of tweaking.

[jbutler]

Thanks for the comments! I figured most of these Circuits WERE public domain at this point, just wondered if anyone knew if they'd ever been used as a basic template for newer designs that DID get patents. And Paulster; thanks for the legal advice. I hadn't even approached liability issues in my thinking yet. So yes, if I ever do make this happen I'll definitely be going the LLC route.