2009 59' 50TH GIBSON LES PAUL

[cfljames]

LOOKEYHEAH

[electricskychurch]

is this yours ?

very nice it seems !

check that :

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showt ... p?t=154454" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there is nothing to say, these les paul bursts are the most beautiful guitars ! LOL

no doubt they are the guitars' stradivarius (although i love the tones i can get with an SG, tele or strat as much but these are the most beautiful)

[fillmore nyc]

And Ill bet its absolutely no different than any other '59 reissue... except of course for the price tag, which will be 3 times more cause the certificate says "50th Anniversary".

[Omn]

And I will bet that one starts changing pots, caps, pickups,...
No different that any Gibsons (guitars in general).

[Omn]

But nice it is.

Even though I would rather have something other than flamed maple now.

[cfljames]

And Ill bet its absolutely no different than any other '59 reissue... except of course for the price tag, which will be 3 times more cause the certificate says "50th Anniversary".

I can give you 21 differences which overall is the number one reason? Supply & Demand(BUSINESS 101) ll: This does not mean I am gonna shed of my other guitars,but as far no differences your misinformed to say the least!
1) Top Carve: Correct, top carve is 99% better.
2) Neck Profile & Angle degree:Correct angle, accurate to a real ’59 neck profile.
3) Bindings: Rolled
4) Burst Color: Correct dye pigmentation,From all accounts, it’s beautiful.
5) Bridge: Non-wire ABR
6) Nut: Correct nut material
7) Switch Nut: Correct number of ridges; much closer to vintage specs
Poker Chip: Thin, and much closer to vintage
9) Pots: Upgraded
10) Back Control & Switch Plates: Proper material
11) Back Control Plate: Correct location/orientation
12) TRC: Period correct Truss rod cover.
13) Tailpiece & Knob Positions: It appears that they probably left the tailpiece in place, but moved the knobs a bit…obviously an area of much debate.

Here are some additional things from Dave Carpenter and Gibson's Phillip Whorton who are at NAMM:

14) Overall body thickness is the same, but mahogany is slightly thicker and maple is slightly thinner
15) Fingerboard thickness is accurate (thinner than it was previously)
16) the radius on the edge of the body backside is sharper
17) Pickguard shape now accurate
18) Maple "window" in cutaway is smaller
19) The jack hole is now 1" diameter (was smaller)
20) The overall body shape is accurate
21) See above

[fillmore nyc]

And Ill bet its absolutely no different than any other '59 reissue... except of course for the price tag, which will be 3 times more cause the certificate says "50th Anniversary".

I can give you 21 differences which overall is the number one reason? Supply & Demand(BUSINESS 101) ll: This does not mean I am gonna shed of my other guitars,but as far no differences your misinformed to say the least!
1) Top Carve: Correct, top carve is 99% better.
2) Neck Profile & Angle degree:Correct angle, accurate to a real ’59 neck profile.
3) Bindings: Rolled
4) Burst Color: Correct dye pigmentation,From all accounts, it’s beautiful.
5) Bridge: Non-wire ABR
6) Nut: Correct nut material
7) Switch Nut: Correct number of ridges; much closer to vintage specs
Poker Chip: Thin, and much closer to vintage
9) Pots: Upgraded
10) Back Control & Switch Plates: Proper material
11) Back Control Plate: Correct location/orientation
12) TRC: Period correct Truss rod cover.
13) Tailpiece & Knob Positions: It appears that they probably left the tailpiece in place, but moved the knobs a bit…obviously an area of much debate.

Here are some additional things from Dave Carpenter and Gibson's Phillip Whorton who are at NAMM:

14) Overall body thickness is the same, but mahogany is slightly thicker and maple is slightly thinner
15) Fingerboard thickness is accurate (thinner than it was previously)
16) the radius on the edge of the body backside is sharper
17) Pickguard shape now accurate
18) Maple "window" in cutaway is smaller
19) The jack hole is now 1" diameter (was smaller)
20) The overall body shape is accurate
21) See above

Wow!! You're like the detail guru!! I stand corrected on the "very important detail" issue, OK?

If you're trying to justify the guitar costing more than an already overpriced '59 reissue (cause that was the aim of my post) by correcting my post on how detail-different this guitar is by saying something like "Supply and Demand, Business 101" then maybe YOU need to revisit your "Business 101" notebooks to see what supply and demand really is about because the laws of supply and demand drop dead when the item is overpriced.
Just so you know, all those details that you've listed mean absolutely jack shit when the MSRP is 25k, the guitar sells for 15k, and you find out that you cant sell it for half of what you paid for all that "painstaking detail".

(And BTW, laying out that kinda coin becomes pretty painful after you realize that its really no different than any other '59 reissue when it comes to actually PLAYING the guitar.)

Go look up a Murphy Aged Limited Edition LP that originally sold for 11k... you cant get 7k for it now, and EVERYBODY was convinced that they would be worth 2x what they sold for.
You can do the same thing with the Johnny Winter Firebird. When they first came out, people paid 7k+ for them. HEY!!! THEY ONLY MADE 100 OF THEM!!! Supply!!! Demand!!! Everyone's gonna want one, right??? I just watched on expire on eBay for $4500 with no takers, and the 2 that are on there now for 6k and 6.7k arent gonna sell either. Not cause they're not nice guitars, cause they're overpriced, which again, effectively kills supply and demand. Supply IS low... demand IS high... why isnt this working?? Cause they're overpriced. Oh, but its got details, man... dontcha SEE 'em???

It doesnt really matter what reissue you're comparing. I've seen '58's that were WAY better than '59's, yet Gibson charges a thousand more for a '59... OH, but the top dye on the '59... blah, blah, blah. I've seen an '05 '59 that blew away an '03, which was supposed to be better cause it had "THE DETAIL", which is a Brazilian fingerboard, and you'll pay 3k MORE for that board... and never recoup your money for a guitar that just got its ass blown off.

Guitars are so individualized, but Gibson sucks customers that wanna talk details into thinking something ridiculous like top dye or pickguard shape really matters.
Those details, while real fun to read in a brochure (or on a forum ) dont mean a giant pile of dog shit when you just paid double or triple what the guitar is worth or can sell for. (Business 102).

Do you think ANYONE really paid attention to this shit in '59?? Think anyone woulda cared if the back bevel was correct, or the jack hole is now 1" instead of 7/8"?? Nah, they were busy P L A Y I N G... the rulers, pencils and debate over "back control plate material" stayed home. Fortunately.

Misinformed??? Yeah, if you want to break out your digital caliper and notebook instead of your guitar pick and amp. I dont own guitars because of "Business 101" or "Supply and Demand". Id rather just fucking play the thing. I've owned quite enough new and old Gibsons to know the difference, and to know the games they currently employ in their business practice. Im quite confident that there isnt one person watching the gig or anyone playing it at the gig that will ever know the difference between it, and any other reissue, but my pocket sure as fuck would know the difference.
(Of course, when the proud new owner initially pays for it, and then when he tries to resell it, his wallet will be significantly lighter. Which you CAN measure if you want).
/

[lcampz]

What those 21 reasons mean is that Gibby screwed all those other people over the years who thought they were getting "the real deal" when in actuality they were getting guitars that were off by all of those 21 reasons. And, they paid a lot (too much) for the priviledge. Whatever... each to his own. But saying categorically that Gibson is the "Holy Grail" is worth about as much as poo on the highway. Respectfully. I'm glad they're finally starting to get it right... but, for that kind of money, a private luthier and/or other companies out there get it right for far less.

[cfljames]

And Ill bet its absolutely no different than any other '59 reissue... except of course for the price tag, which will be 3 times more cause the certificate says "50th Anniversary".

The reason I joined this forum was after reading the post and actually meeting the some of its members and moderators at shows,It felt almost like a club of all well informed guys that were into the same stuff as I was,so I joined.The several forums I belong and belonged to have some info that is great and some can be taken with a grain of salt,and most always turned into a giant pissing match,so I quit posting on the ones that took a turn for the worst and simply moved on,but this forum is the best regardless of the outcome of the recent stupidity that can be read above this post.

If I seemed offensive in my response,I would take a closer look at the chain of events that lead up to this and see that I did it in a informative way WITHOUT USING THE F WORD TO GET MY OPINION ACROSS ?
Everyone is entitled to there opinion I always believe,I in zero way tried to convince or sway anyone's thinking to my train of thoughts or taste,I just wanted to show a picture of what I believe is a nice guitar? In fact that's all I did.Look above
There are $everal rea$on$ that one might have responded with the post that suggested there negativity towards the guitar that I posted and that's cool,everyone's entitled to his or her opinions,but when your comments lash out with negativity and are based on unknown speculation expect a reaction !But a reaction of a post that is based on fact not opinion.The reasons of this negativity is simply a question of ones thoughts of dollar value or cost when they have less than a snowballs chance in hell in ever knowing what its really worth or what I paid for it(WHO CARES?)and nothing mentioning its overall likes or dislikes,just a self based dollar figure and comparison without ever seeing the guitars offered by self admission in his post.

Fillmore East I am happy with my guitar,why are you so angry??? Did you really think I would not respond after what you posted honestly??? I don't really care and at all not interested in seeing who can insult each other and piss on the reputation of myself or this forum,you can continue to but you will be posting to the beat of you own drum or demise.The bottom line is that I did not get to the point in my life were I am able to buy guitars like this by taking abuse from people,nor am I going to start now! So if we have different values in the future I would probably pass on the abuse and save yourself,myself,the administrators and other forum members your unprofessional posting ???
Look for sound clips in the future:lol:

[Tuco]

cfljames, nice score! Just play, bro. Don't let anyone grind you down.

[OnTheFritz]

That is a gorgeous guitar, I'd love to plug that into my Metro.

[lcampz]

fillmore's original comment, if misinformed, wasn't a personal attack. Secondly, if you're that pleased with your instrument... why do you need to justify your purchase of it? Why is it necessary to bring in "your financial position / where you are in life"? All of that's unnecessary and irrelevant. You could have said more with a simple "whatever". But since you went there... if that guitar was in a store near me and for sale; I could buy it tomorrow... ...but I'm not going to... because 90% of the digs about the factory/company and the products they put out, up the road from me are true. Notice that through out this response, I didn't cuss, I didn't call you an idiot for buying the guitar, etc. But, this is a forum... ...where you post a topic... or a picture... ...and people respond. More to the point, fillmore first point was off... but what about his second point? The part about Gibson knowlingly overpricing their goods. In case you missed the printed interview with good ol' Henry J... he admitted to that as part of his business philosphy a long time ago: "...high price increases perceived value among most; so up go the digits..." Maybe that should be point #22.

[cfljames]

I 100% agree that Gibson's prices are way out of whack,and there consistence in quality is hit or miss at best.I really did justify my purchase by simply just playing it regardless of the changes made or price.I only noted the differences between this year changes well because there are changes,in fact more than a few for better or worse?In reality this is a classic case of sour grapes.Also the reason finances were mentioned is because this truthfully is what as you call BS Flags was the whole motive behind this from jump street,that's is what reality started this over, so I went after the glass jaw and it cracked as I expected.
Also know one from Gibson has ever held a gun to someones head and made them buy a guitar from them,the consumer should be smart enough to make there own choice,but not be condemned by people for doing so without expecting the same BS back?
Your correct about your forum analogy as to expecting some if not a lot of negativity,well because it's a forum,point well taken? Anyone with a pulse can recognize why the lashing started,so I responded with how I truthfully felt and still do for better or for worse,"You don't have to build watches to know how to tell time"?
And its time to put this to rest finally,which from here on in I have done for good.Sorry Flames this is not what I wanted,and if I stepped out of bounds I accept it if I get bounced.
In fact what really are we arguing about? A piece of wood ?

[electricskychurch]

hey guys, cool down ! LOL

i also like this forum as i think people are cooler and write less bullshit than on several other places (maybe cause there is less people ! LOL) .

i agree that 20 000 $ is much too much for guitar like that but it's a nice guitar for sure.
i think it's a pitty that Gibson (or other brands) have such marketing technics but if a person has the money to buy it and likes the guitar , why not buying it.
the best reason for not buying it would be to boycot Gibson for their marketing technics but who's gonna do that ! LOL
i don't think i would ever put that much money on a new guitar and to go even further, seeing some guitars that sold for 200 to 300$ 40 or 50 years ago, and are now sold for about 20 000 to 50 000 $ (strats ) or 300 000 to 600 000 $ (les paul) , i would say that it's a shame !

do you really think a guitar should cost that much ?
certainly not but some people are tsill ready to pay that much .
even if they are fabulous guitars (for some of them only ! lol) there is no reason why a guitar should cost the price of some of the most expensive cars or even teh price of a house !
would you trade your house for an original les paul ?
sure it depends of your house ! LOL

the question that comes to my mind is :
what will be the differences between this 50th anniv and teh regular production historic / VOS ?

cause if they just put all these changes on teh 50th anniv to sell it more expensive but not on teh regular prod, i think it would really be a shame .

some of these changes might be interesting, like maybe the neck angle and profile and maybe the top carve as well if the difference is really noticeable, .

the fact the fretboard is thinner is maybe more accurate but a thicker fretboard is better if you know you will keep your guitar long and will have it refretted one or two times .
maybe the difference in teh wood thickness as well if there is really a difference, the rest is pure marketing i think .

when will they put some decent pu 's ! LOL

[cfljames]

The pickups still are nothing to get excited about,but alright and usable just nothing spectacular.The most noticeable thing about it is the carve and neck angle and finally a good nut.Not to say it puts to shame any of my previous year Gibson's,just in those particular things mentioned IMHO.In fact my 58 50th Murphy cleans its clock in many ways,just not those areas.Also the 09 VOS as well as 57,58,59 will all have the recent changes that were mentioned by Gibson so they say,and so far they have backed up there statement.
Why does everyone think these guitars are huge money as opposed to the prior historics? I paid without spamming, not anywhere what retail or map pricing was on this guitar,in fact it was a few hundred more than a years previous 08 59 vos not gloss,that still resides on there wall.Yes there expensive,but worth it? Well that's in the eye of the beholder who actually owns one,and not a speculator.There are far worse addictions one could have than buying a questionably overpriced guitar or amp.I enjoy the hobby and yes I blown way to much money probably,but I would not change my ways when in comes to too much gear.
What do you think the reaction will be when I post the Bloomfield Burst? Or should I leave well enough alone after this last soap opera?