Northern Ash or Alder?

[ledvedder]

Which would you choose for an unfinished/transparent finish VH style guitar? I realize Ed's guitar was ash, but I'm reading that Ash tends to be very heavy. Would there be a big tonal difference between Ash and Alder?

[vanhalen5150]

Swamp ash is only a little heavier than Alder. Maybe go with that. There is a pretty big difference. Alder is a more mellow sound. Ash is much brighter.

[ErickC]

a cool simple guide to guitar woods
http://www.andertons.co.uk/content/elec ... wood-guide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for your question, when you say VH style do you mean tone wise or just aesthetics (1 hb) because if you're doing a transparent finish then it all would depend on the body you get sent. Alder can have just a good a look as ash. You'd have to look at alder and ash samples beforehand to make that kind of decision. If you're getting a body from Musikraft or Warmoth you can be sure you are getting some grade A wood. If you search on ebay if you can find a listing of a body for sale with the actual photo of the body you're getting (and not a stock photo) then that could help sway your choice.

[ledvedder]

I'm interested in both tone and aesthetics. I'm just so used to the weight of my Wolfgang. I hate the weight of Les Pauls, and I'm worried that ash would be too heavy.

[vanhalen5150]

Swamp ash is pretty light. Northern ash, especially the stuff from Quebec is very heavy. I have a strat body that weighs 6.5 lbs by itself. I call it "Jabba the Strat".

[jimmyride]

[ErickC]

Im in the middle of a build, maple neck/rosewood fingerboard + swamp ash body and put together it's pretty light but very resonant unplugged, a bit more than my maple/maple + alder strat.

Again, if you're doing a transparent finish you'll be at the mercy of the vendor and the body they pick for you, so if you're sent a grain pattern you might not like to show off your plans might change. I know i almost rethought my build because the grain pattern was very nice but im still covering up in paint.

This one has a nice grain pattern, if its the actual body you're bidding on, which i think it is since it's numbered "4" on the listing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLID-SWAMP-ASH ... 43b7b59b46" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[pleximanic]

Alder wood ranging in weight from 3 lbs to 5.5 lbs for a strat body
and Swamp ash ranges from 2.5 lbs up to 7 lbs for a strat body!
I always chase those who weigh around 3 lbs "max 3.4 lbs" for both Alder and Swamp Ash bodys because they tend to sound the best "to my ears"!
Swamp ash varies like crazy depending on the cut and the amount of water that surrounds when it grows!
I would guess that the body of Eddie's Frankenstein weighs between 3 to 3.5 lbs!
I know that Ed hates heavy guitars!

[Tone Slinger]

In Ed's first interview ('78 Jas O. interview) Ed said "It weighs about thesame as a Les Paul", concerning his Charvel Strat (Franky). That combined with what I hear from hard ash indicates hard Northern ash. I'd say Ed's Franky, body alone is probably in the 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 lb range. Alder is warmer and like Vanhalen5150 said 'mellow' as compared to Hard ash. Hard ash is more brilliant and focused (relate that (tone)to like,IQ ). There is super 'clarity'.

[Roe]

Which would you choose for an unfinished/transparent finish VH style guitar? I realize Ed's guitar was ash, but I'm reading that Ash tends to be very heavy. Would there be a big tonal difference between Ash and Alder?

for transparent finish and VH1, ash seems best. I'd avoid very heavy northern ash unless you get a hollow body. If you get swamp ash, a beffy quartersawn hard rock maple neck might work well

[JimiJames]

You guys are touching on a bit of a *magic* formula...
ToneQuestReport did a study on LP weight (& Dbl Wht's)
They concluded that the best sounding overall were 8½ to 9 .lbs.
I couldn't agree more with their findings.
To make a point, my roommate has a LP just over 7½ .lbs.
... Looks like a gorgeous flame maple chevroned bombshell, but goes plink-plank plikitty-plunk.
Translates to yukk.... He's looking to sell regardless of how far and few are that light weight...
You could probably improve with hardware, but your not going to make that much of a difference.
Pickup's will even seem like a futile attempt no matter what brand or type.

There's also a proven formula for Fender Stratocaster's,
but not so much when it comes to FR Lic. SuperStrat's as they vary in parts used.

[garbeaj]

Swamp ash is only a little heavier than Alder. Maybe go with that. There is a pretty big difference. Alder is a more mellow sound. Ash is much brighter.

My swamp ash guitars are alot lighter than my alder guitars. I have a '68 Fender strat and my Fender Clapton/VH-1 guitar which are both alder. These are very dense and heavy versus the swamp ash tele that I have. Swamp ash is light like basswood. The Northern Ash guitars are the ones that tend to be more dense and heavy than the swamp ash in my experience.

As far as Ed's original Frankenstein, I believe the consensus is that the Frankenstein was actually far lighter than a normal Alder Fender strat according to those that have held the guitar. Sooo many people have concluded that getting the lightest piece of Northern Ash that you can possibly find would bring you closer to Ed's original. This train of thought led to the whole "kiln drying" theory that would roast a Northern Ash body until the maximum amount of residual moisture is removed from the Northern Ash, thus theoretically leaving you with a lightweight piece of Northern Ash.

[Tone Slinger]

Ed had only used the newer Les Pauls ('69-'78) when he made the statement "About the weight of a Les Paul", concerning the weight of his "Charvel" (Franky obviously). The Les Pauls from that era ('70's) were in the 9 to 10lb range on average with the 'pancake' style of gluing pieces of Mahogany (with a thinner piece of maple in the middle) togather. Ed was reffering to the Les Paul Custom, I reckon, in the interview, which would have been of the pancake variety with a maple neck. For Ed to say (why would he lie, Jas was photographed with the Franky strapped on during that interview) that it had about the same weight as a Les Paul would be indicative of at least an 7 1/2 lb to 8lb guitar. Plus, hard ash, imo, has a distinct bottom end that is both deeper and tighter in response than swamp ash.It is brighter as well. The lighter swamp ash resonates in a more 'airy' chimey type way, which is attractive to the blues guy's, who use the cleaner with more headroom amp tone (Fender's).

I agree that the heavier Alder is better for a strat than the lighter, this holds true to ash as well, imo. Not to say that light swamp ash cant do VH though. A great sounding guitar can inspire a player, but a good player will sound 'good' with almost any guitar. So I still think that the Franky was a pretty 'average' weight Northern ash body (4 1/2 lb to5 1/2 lb body). Some of that stuff (hard ash) can be quite a bit heavier than that.

[jnew]

My swamp ash strat is every bit as light as any alder body strat I've ever played so yes, lightweight ash bodies are there to be had. Brighter and faster attack resulting in nice clarity and definition.

[Tone Slinger]

I agree, Ash has that brighter attack and quick response (transients). The harder, heavier stuff has more of this than the lighter though. It can get extreme though. I just slapped my new KnE hard ash Franky togather. It definately has the 'ash factor' in spades. I'm happy, I got a great sounding one, though it is a bit heavy. I gotta try and get a clip of some kind up, to show how much projection this thing has.