PAF type alternatives

[vanhalen5150]

Or these....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-PAIR-O ... 1c36fb116b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

taking a bit of lefty lou's advice, i have a line on a Duncan 59 here locally that is older with a 59BJ sticker on it. It must be at least 20 years old....

That guy has had those up forever. He's mental.

[rgorke]

So, been trying to investigate different PAF, e.g. low output pickups. I have been liking how some sound with my amp even though the amp can only really be used for VH. (Just kidding...)

So, other than the real deal PAFs what are some lower output pickups that folks like that 1) clean up nice with the volume, 2) add that airy, yet crisp tone when volumed up?

Here are ones I have looked into and would like to hear what folk have to say that have tried some and others.

Thorbaks (probably the grail for PAF clones)
WCR Darkburst
MM 1400
Dimarzio DP 102 (?)
Bare Knuckle The Mule
Bare Knuckle VH2
MCP Blackbelt
Duncan 59

What else? And if people can include either Youtube or other clips that would be cool.

Let the Duncan 59' set age about 20 or so years and you've got a great PAF clone. I've had my pair in my custom lefty PRS clone guitar for at least that amount of time and they're just now mellowing/smoothing out. The bridge is trembucker spaced, and both 59' HB pups are tapped to get either HB or single coil sounds.

Well, Mr. lefty Lou.....great tip. I came across a Duncan 59 with a "59BJ" sticker on it on CL. Picked it up, putnt in and wow great tone. I am liking the lower output pickups more and more. Don't get me wrong, my strat with the MM1300 in it is VH1, but these lower output pickups have a different dimension to them.

[Lefty Lou]

I've always loved and appreciated vintage output pickups. All if not most of my classic guitar heroes have used vintage output pickups to great results. Years ago, unless one was a musician of any notoriety they didn't get specialized pickup winding services from the likes of people such as Abigail Yabarra or Seymour Duncan at Fender. Therefore, most pickups were generally stock with the occasional overwound or "hotter" pickup. There is a lot to be said for pup winders that can wind a pup with no squeel, and no need for wax potting, and at the same time provide a balanced spectrum of frequencies with the perfect chime and clarity. The greatest (stock/vintage) output pickups were good enough for my guitar heroes, and they're definitely good enough for me.

[Lefty Lou]

FWIW, When I fist got my Seymour Duncan 59' HB pups I didn't care for the sound too much BUT, I noticed as time went by they did seem to mellow more. This is in keeping with what Seymour said about the 59' compared to the Antiquity which is, the 59' is more like buying a brand new PAF HB in 1959 as where the Antiquity HB is more like that same HB that has seen 54 years of usage.

[Tone Slinger]

I'm not sure if there are any examples of ORIGINAL pafs that are wound up past 9k or not, but that seems to be the right output for them to be. I have a 9k awg 42 wire StewMac pickup. It came with an A5 in it. I swapped that out for a A2 and it was more likeing. This pickup has perfectly balanced coils,wind/output wise. I've been hearing some real good clips of fella's using the Seymour Duncan '78 hb'er. It is a 9k to 9.1K awg 42 wire, a2magnet humbucker, but,it has more turns on the slotted pole coil. As far as what I can tell, there is sonic validity to this being the pu that Seymour wound for Ed in very early '78. A lower output paf style hb'er in a strat,needs this spec (custom shop '78)to sound right in a strat (25.5 scale,bolt on, maple neck, etc), cause it warms it up a bit. With a Gibson, you can get away with brighter(A5) and even weaker pu's (high 7k's to low 8k's).

[vanhalen5150]

From what I've read most were between 7-8K. Its possible a few came out in the 9K range though.

[Lefty Lou]

I'm not sure if there are any examples of ORIGINAL pafs that are wound up past 9k or not, but that seems to be the right output for them to be. I have a 9k awg 42 wire StewMac pickup. It came with an A5 in it. I swapped that out for a A2 and it was more likeing. This pickup has perfectly balanced coils,wind/output wise. I've been hearing some real good clips of fella's using the Seymour Duncan '78 hb'er. It is a 9k to 9.1K awg 42 wire, a2magnet humbucker, but,it has more turns on the slotted pole coil. As far as what I can tell, there is sonic validity to this being the pu that Seymour wound for Ed in very early '78. A lower output paf style hb'er in a strat,needs this spec (custom shop '78)to sound right in a strat (25.5 scale,bolt on, maple neck, etc), cause it warms it up a bit. With a Gibson, you can get away with brighter(A5) and even weaker pu's (high 7k's to low 8k's).

Supposedly the JB humbucker pup by Seymour Duncan is nothing more than a duplication of the hotter wound bridge pup from Jeff's Les Paul as used on the Blow By Blow album (the botswana brown one). It's my belief that Seymour took liberties in winding the JB humbucker much hotter than Jeff's original, which isn't exactly in keeping with "duplicating" Jeff Beck's original humbucker pup.

[Lefty Lou]

As I stated earlier speaking in generalities, that typically a pickup with less magnetic pull like an A2 SC or HB pup sounds better in harder sounding guitars with more cut, as where an A5 SC or HB sound better in warmer less "clear" sounding guitars. Of course the wind, winding pattern, wire, and magnetic field strength of the A2 or A5 magnets have a lot to do with the overall outcome BUT for purposes of magnet comparisons we'll just say the pups compared here are of vintage output design.

[yngwie308]

Also concerning the SD "JB's", when they were produced has recently been discussed
I have two guitars from 1993 with dual JB's they do not sound the same as newer versions I have heard.
I know a lot has to go into the equation, woods, construction, ect.
But the early nineties are a good year for the JB.
A lot of people were less than impressed with the SD Custom Shop RTM's which were developed for Warren DeMartini intended for use in his Charvel factory guitars. The RTM's are slightly higher output in DC resistance with some added mid emphasis I have read.
Hearing them on the Internet is hard to come to a conclusion at times.
SD has always made great pickups as has DiMarzio, for me Tim Mills at Bare Knuckles is building (imo) soe of the finest sounding pickups out there, bar none..pun intended
If an off the shelf doesn't do it for you Tim will do a custom wind which I hope to have him do for me in the future.
Check out his band they are on tour, The Bare Knuckles Blues Band.
Tim is a great player and knows tone and they have excellent customer service.
The recent Johnny Marr Jag has BKP's supplied to Fender.
Did NY Chief change his RG Strat's p/u's for Irish Tour models, I know he got the BSM treble booster which is instant Rory with his Vox's and Fender's..
yngwie308

[bdc]

I finally put 36th anniversary Dimarzio PAFs in my 1999 "67 Flying V"......I hated the stock pickups and rarely played the guitar for a few years......Now I play it all the time.......I proudly vouch for these

[Lefty Lou]

I finally put 36th anniversary Dimarzio PAFs in my 1999 "67 Flying V"......I hated the stock pickups and rarely played the guitar for a few years......Now I play it all the time.......I proudly vouch for these

I just wish that I could find a used set of DiMarzio PAF's made in the late 70's to 80's. Those pups were the cat's ass.