Metropoulos Forum

Hey guys! Did you catch this? There are some people saying tonewood is a myth. They say the type of wood used on an ELECTRIC guitar does have NO impact on the tone. This is one of them. Not exactly a nice guy. He explains the physics behind it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJfeFe4CKEk = short vulgar version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svmOQuNC1Uwv = longer version

Wood is organic and alive. It grows slowly, like we do. There is more to it than just the species. Wood is RESONANT based on its rings and its density. Any hardwood will sound good as an electric guitar body. If the rings are orientated the proper way, the guitars sound will bloom and blossom. The density and species are secondary to this, but, affect things like transient attack and eq.

Regardless of species, the ring orientation needs to be right. Also, imo, the OPTIMUM weight for a strat body (as a reference) is no less than 3lb 12oz to no more than 4lb 3oz. There are exceptions to this, but, not to the ring orientation. Sound resonates out, WITH the rings, like dropping a rock in a pond......the rings grow out and away.

Those that say you can use concrete or plastic, etc, for a guitar body are correct, but, the tone and resonance is gonna be different.
The bridge mounting screws draw up the resonance to the baseplate then to the saddles, the string vibrates based on that. To know and understand the acoustic properties that are being used is key. Sound is 'time based' just like life. Be it a Salmons fillet or a piece of wood, the grain/growth orientation can be observed. In the woods case, that is the difference (ring orientation) between good and great, in respect to resonant tone.

Yeah well... I watched a lot of these videos with a science background to the "tonewood=myth" theory. I can't really say anything about it because I'm not any good at science. What they say is the wood on an ELECTRIC solidbody instrument doesn't affect the tone in any way. They say all the sound or energy is coming from the strings to the pickups. Just watch the videos. I kind of don't want to believe and I do not because that would mean that let's say an Epiphone LP sounded the same like Gibson 59 reissue when the pickups and hardware was replaced. We all know it's not true. I can't help but think about it though.

They can preach Science all they like, but although they might be putting forward arguments and asking some questions, they are not answering ALL the questions and all the variables involved. THAT in itself cannot be classed as Science. It is merely using your own agenda for an argument, and ignoring everything else.

So many variables in wood will affect transfer, sustain, resonant frequency that it could not possibly fail to have an effect on the overall response of the instrument. Whether this idiot likes it or not, it is a mechanical device. Even the pickups are a mechanical device. Isolate the mechanics of the pickups from the guitar, and hey, the wood/material will STILL affect the tone as it will still affect the way the strings behave. Even mass makes a huge difference.

But you know, you shout loud enough and some people are going to start to listen...

Agreed. The body of an electric guitar (the neck too) has ALOT of influence on the sounds 'reality'.

With an acoustic guitar, its as much about whats NOT there as what IS there.

As far as an Epi Les Paul compared to a '59 reissue, IF the Epi has proper ring (grain orientation) concerning its 2,3 or 4 piece body and laminate maple top, etc, then it very well could sound better than a '59 reissue that is thrown togather with ignorance of this (ring orientation). I've seen LOTS of Gibson LP's made WRONG. The original spec sheets of the 'Burst' era 'Les Pauls ('58-'60) have IN GREAT DETAIL, the EXACT construction layout. And in it they use PROPER ring orientation. Whether they landed on it by mistake in the layout drawings or not, what they showed was 100% proper according to getting the most from the materials (wood) they were using.

A strat is much easier to asses.

Tone Slinger wrote:Agreed...A strat is much easier to asses.

Well, I like boobies too

jimmyride wrote:Hey guys! Did you catch this? There are some people saying tonewood is a myth. They say the type of wood used on an ELECTRIC guitar does have NO impact on the tone. This is one of them. Not exactly a nice guy. He explains the physics behind it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJfeFe4CKEk = short vulgar version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svmOQuNC1Uwv = longer version

i'm usually highly doubtful of people trying to pass their opinion as science , without writing even one formula on the board .... here is no exception , far too much fuzzy rhetoric to be taken seriously ...
And his bell curve about I.Q ( test which is by the way , yet another forgery of pseudo human science , i mean you can train for psychotechnic tests , this not relevant in any way of latent brain flexibility )
Just let pass an I.Q test of a student in first grade , then let him pass again this test after years of mathematical training in college ....Then compare the results brain is a muscle ....
whether he wants it or not , the vibration of the string initiates the vibration of the body through the nut and bridge , but the progressive dampening of the body's vibration by it's own mechanical properties ( flexibility , the less flexible the less the dampening ) , by consequence also dampens the vibration of the string by a factor relative of the body's mechanical properties, ( i mean , try to hit a string while under water and see the results ....) ....Everything that is physically linked has reciprocal mechanical action on one to another , that's a given in physic...I wanna see his 1D maxwell equation model where the support's flexibility doesn't affect the period of the signal .... i bet it's the model for the vibration of the string suspended in thin air without dampening ....Gotta say to this guy , there's a huge difference between a simplified model which is at best an approximation which only serve to get an instinctive notion of how an isolated physical principle work ( usually taught at school cuz it's simpler ) , and the real world model of the physical phenomenon which is called a simulation , which involves several intertwined PDE's (the highest number possible of relevant physical parameters taken into account ) with the thinnest possible finite elements grid of resolution ....
oh well Let this guy continue to play his cement brick after all , to each his own ...More wood for me

demonufo +1 man

The more angry you appear, the more people believe you are correct.

You dont judge what the face of an electric guitar should be based on which side of the board's LOOKS the best. You base it on the ring orientation. This is something unique to an organic living thing (trees) and is not the case of a composite or other manipulation. The ring orientation undermines the actual density or species of wood being used. Sound and resonance is DIRECTIONAL .

The guy is trying to make a point that there is the sound wood makes with an unplugged electric guitar that does not translate to the amp. The reason is that the pickup not being a microphone only picks up what the string sounds like and not what the guitar wood is sounding like.

I understand what he is saying but its too generalized. Anyone who has experimented with a lot of different wood and pickups will tell you wood does make a difference.

Never seen this guy on any luthier forum. He would get laughed at regardless how much he ranted and cursed. Claiming someone's IQ is low because they don't agree with his marker board physics lecture?

Watch any of his other vids? WTH is he ranting about?

vanhalen5150 wrote:The more angry you appear, the more people you thinkbelieve you are correct.

Fixed that for you.

To bolster the opinion that anything between the two ends of a string has an influence on the output...

Anybody else ever done any experiments with machine heads? Ever changed a set for something very different in type and mass and noticed that the notes your guitar normally feed back on now settle on different harmonics, or don't feed back at all? Yup, resonance. Wood is most definitely going to have a bearing on that too. Whether it varies much is another matter, but it will have an affect.

vanhalen5150 wrote:I understand what he is saying but its too generalized. Anyone who has experimented with a lot of different wood and pickups will tell you wood does make a difference.

Yeah, you're right. I just wish someone knocked this guy out in his own ring.

I was gonna joke about when he was going to rant about Obamacare and then he did...