S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

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Unique
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by Unique » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:29 pm

jarrodthebobo wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:21 am
Hey guys, been following this thread for about a month and loving all the information posted and finally decided to sign up to post my little 'adventure'...

I've been meaning to fully build a nice Marshall style amp for a very long time; so why not build one of the most iconic Marshalls known to man?!!? Hah!

It's been a long journey, but its been very fun; and I think I've gotten close to where I want to be on this guy.

It's a nice little combo with sexy wine red tolex. I really want to change the faceplate, as it's a recycled epiphone valve special chasis and quiet ugly atm, but it does its duty.

The preamp is based on the many different #34 circuits that have been posted; but with many extra tweaks, including the second gain control after V1B common to the #36 and #39 mods. I also have cathode switches for each stage; giving me multiple different flavors of tone depending on my mood.

The amp is actually single ended and utilizes a el84 and 6v6 in parallel, which actually yields a VERY nice power tube distortion sound; the fattness of a 6v6 and the bite of an el84; gives a very close 'big bottle' tone, and the amp is one of the loudest amps I've ever heard under 20 watts.

Recently I had just used it at one of my bands shows, and I had to keep it at about 1-2 on the master volume as I was drowning out our drummer, who isn't necessarily quiet. Using this amp through a 4x12 is deafening.

I'll get you guys better clips soon (as my new m-audio 2x2 has finally come in), but in the meantime, take this video and soundcloud clip (which was recorded direct in from the effects send (which was harshly clipping the fast track... whoops)).

https://soundcloud.com/jarrod-beauchemi ... ct-in-test


Since these recordings I've change around some treble peakers, cleaned up some solder joints, and added a 500k for the send volume of the effects loop, so better tones are to come!

The soundcloud clip includes me switching around a bunch of those cathode switches, and then using the second channel (which is a Typical plexi circuit cascaded instead of parallel) towards the end.
Enjoy!

-Jarrod
Welcome to the forum! That is an interesting little amp you have there. I have to say, I was blown away when I heard it in your video. I wasn't expecting that. It may not be spot on to a Marshall style of amp with a S.I.R. mod, but I can definitely hear the spirit of the mods in your sound. Very impressive!

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by jarrodthebobo » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:48 pm

Thanks! It truly is a small (at least in wattage) amp with a huge sound!

At this amp's first show with my band, the other guitarist kept creeping the volume up on his amp (which was a 60 watt Blackstar amp) because I was drowning him out with this amp here. It has a very thick full sound perfect for leads, but isn't super tight enough to really pull off higher gain rhythm tones too well. I'm thinking of throwing in a resonance control in order to try and fix that.

Hopefully I can get a new video or clip together soon for you guys as it does get REALLY close to the Slash sound in person. Defiantly has the aggressive mid-range snarl, that's for sure. Being able to throw myself into a stock JCM800 style pre-amp is a pretty cool bonus as well; sometimes you can't just beat the classics.

I find myself using the second channel quite a bit too; it's very versatile especially when you have an overdrive pedal up front. The 'plexi' tone doesn't quite have a whole hella a lot of gain unless you goose the power amp as well, but adding in the overdrive pedal defiantly takes you to the classic 80s tone. I actually used this channel during that show; as much as it pained me to not use the #34ish circuit, being able to have a 'clean' channel with the flip of a pedal was super helpful for the music we were playing.

In fact, here's a video of one of our songs. Just a warning; our vocalist flaked out on us so I'm apparently the new singer... I don't really know how to sing our songs nor am I an amazing rock singer but, well, enjoy the guitar at least, haha!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64c2fUx2ZkE&t=0s[/youtube]

There are a few more clips of different songs from this show up on this youtube account, so if you wanna hear more go right ahead. As you can tell in later videos, the other guitarist seems to suddenly climb up in volume... hahah! Remember though; I'm only on about 1-2 on the master volume here!

On a side note; I do recomend that anyone who tries the #34 mod out actually thrown in the second gain knob that the #39 and #36 have after the second gain stage; it may not be exactly what Slash had/used but I find it very useful to tailor the sound of the overdrive, especially when using the hotter biased cathode on the cold biased stage (at least on my highly modded amp here, haha!).

It's been a great adventure for me really, and I feel this is going to be the first of many amp builds I'm going to throw myself into!

Next up I definatly gotta make a 50-100watt version of this circuit!
"I hear you knocking but you can't come in-
I know you've been drinking Gin." -Louis Jordan

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by snakepit86 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:15 pm

Unique wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:01 pm
snakepit86 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:19 am
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3MKiVThA0w&t=217s[/youtube]


i just made that video for the #34 mod with a little changes

Im fully going now for the #36 tone.
I think this sounds pretty darn good. The only issue I hear is that maybe the mic was clipping with your camera, or whatever you used to record it some, but the tone itself, and the character of the amp sounds pretty spot on. Nice job snakepit86!
thank you very much, i used two sm57 and maybe you are right, i will keep it in mind, the am was loud.

I think it sounds thin but i do not wanted to add post processing bass

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by Unique » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:34 am

jarrodthebobo wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:48 pm
Thanks! It truly is a small (at least in wattage) amp with a huge sound!

At this amp's first show with my band, the other guitarist kept creeping the volume up on his amp (which was a 60 watt Blackstar amp) because I was drowning him out with this amp here. It has a very thick full sound perfect for leads, but isn't super tight enough to really pull off higher gain rhythm tones too well. I'm thinking of throwing in a resonance control in order to try and fix that.

Hopefully I can get a new video or clip together soon for you guys as it does get REALLY close to the Slash sound in person. Defiantly has the aggressive mid-range snarl, that's for sure. Being able to throw myself into a stock JCM800 style pre-amp is a pretty cool bonus as well; sometimes you can't just beat the classics.

I find myself using the second channel quite a bit too; it's very versatile especially when you have an overdrive pedal up front. The 'plexi' tone doesn't quite have a whole hella a lot of gain unless you goose the power amp as well, but adding in the overdrive pedal defiantly takes you to the classic 80s tone. I actually used this channel during that show; as much as it pained me to not use the #34ish circuit, being able to have a 'clean' channel with the flip of a pedal was super helpful for the music we were playing.

In fact, here's a video of one of our songs. Just a warning; our vocalist flaked out on us so I'm apparently the new singer... I don't really know how to sing our songs nor am I an amazing rock singer but, well, enjoy the guitar at least, haha!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64c2fUx2ZkE&t=0s[/youtube]

There are a few more clips of different songs from this show up on this youtube account, so if you wanna hear more go right ahead. As you can tell in later videos, the other guitarist seems to suddenly climb up in volume... hahah! Remember though; I'm only on about 1-2 on the master volume here!

On a side note; I do recomend that anyone who tries the #34 mod out actually thrown in the second gain knob that the #39 and #36 have after the second gain stage; it may not be exactly what Slash had/used but I find it very useful to tailor the sound of the overdrive, especially when using the hotter biased cathode on the cold biased stage (at least on my highly modded amp here, haha!).

It's been a great adventure for me really, and I feel this is going to be the first of many amp builds I'm going to throw myself into!

Next up I definatly gotta make a 50-100watt version of this circuit!
Your welcome, and good luck with your builds.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by Unique » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:40 am

snakepit86 wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:15 pm
Unique wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:01 pm
snakepit86 wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:19 am
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3MKiVThA0w&t=217s[/youtube]


i just made that video for the #34 mod with a little changes

Im fully going now for the #36 tone.
I think this sounds pretty darn good. The only issue I hear is that maybe the mic was clipping with your camera, or whatever you used to record it some, but the tone itself, and the character of the amp sounds pretty spot on. Nice job snakepit86!
thank you very much, i used two sm57 and maybe you are right, i will keep it in mind, the am was loud.

I think it sounds thin but i do not wanted to add post processing bass
Your welcome. For the most part the #34 mod is somewhat a thinner sounding amp, and your settings will have a lot to do with that as well. That's why it cuts through the mix so well, and is a great recording amp. In the studio, there's not much use for anything below 300Hz with a guitar anyway as it will compete with the bass and drums. This probably one of the reasons Slash likes it so well. So it sounds good, and correct to me.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by BRMSlash » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:10 pm

Here's a new clip with some slight tweaks. I realised I'd previously tuned the amp a little too clean. I've increased the 150k on the gain pot to 220k. I also replaced the 0.47uf 225p presence cap with a 0.1uf MKP 10.

http://sclk.co/s85ezo

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by CoffeeTones » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:19 pm

I like the .1uF presence in the #36. I think you have enough gain, but the sound is smooth. Using a grid stopper on the 4th stage and / or 1k cathode can affect that. I might also use a .0047uF to .022uF CC in the preamp, instead of .0022uF, but use the 150k on the gain pot because either of those being larger will increase bass, but the .0022uF kills a lot of volume / gain. I found that putting a small 25K bias type pot in the position of the PI tail, can be useful in tuning. Amazing what a change that can make in small increments.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by BRMSlash » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:13 am

Yeah, I've been tweaking the 4th stage cathode bypass cap as well. The last clip was with a 250v 470nF MKT368. Previously I've had either a 400V MKT368 or a 250V MKT1813. There is a particular filtered tone the MKT368 gives, but 400V seemed a little loose, so went with the 250v. I probably need to adjust the grid stopper.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by dukeamps » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:00 pm

Here is a clip from an old hybrid 2x12 combo amp I have just converted to an all tube amp,

with original
https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13691144

without original
https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13691167

:toast:

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by BRMSlash » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:40 pm

Split the difference & went with a 180k on the gain pot. Also removed the grid stopper on the 4th stage & lowered the 4th stage cathode to a more standard 1k. Added reverb again.

http://sclk.co/s85h4b

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by CoffeeTones » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:48 pm

The top end and bite and gain sounds good. I hear a little too much tension in the upper mids and not enough low mid (SCOM). Might try a larger value CC or peaker across the 470k before the gain pot, possibly a different stage 4 bypass. Hard to say because I only have your old spec in front of me. I'd like to hear a recording with a larger value CC if you have .0022uF in this recording.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by Unique » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:51 pm

CoffeeTones wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:48 pm
The top end and bite and gain sounds good. I hear a little too much tension in the upper mids and not enough low mid (SCOM). Might try a larger value CC or peaker across the 470k before the gain pot, possibly a different stage 4 bypass. Hard to say because I only have your old spec in front of me. I'd like to hear a recording with a larger value CC if you have .0022uF in this recording.
I think that sounds pretty darn good from what I can hear.

You are ultimately going to have to be the judge of your own sound, because no matter what anyone says here, we are only hearing your samples through crappy computer speakers, or smart phone speakers that lack in depth and frequency response, and we are not hearing the full frequency range of what your hearing with your amp. Not to mention, your sound is being crudely dithered down and crushed into a low quality digital format to be heard on Soundclick. Everyone is probably hearing it slightly different given their listening device. So what one person says needs improvement on, another may not hear it the same way as their speakers probably differ. But from what I can hear, all aspects of the tone's character is there. The best you can do is compare your recording to one of the demos with #36 on it through the same listening device and compare the differences you hear between the two.

I never see anyone talk here about setting up their pickups to help shape the sound. If anyone is going off what Adam Day said in a past interview of how he sets up Slash's guitar, you will have to realize that he is talking about Slash's live guitars and not the Derrig. The guitar you hear on AFD, or any other album. If you look at pics of the Derrig over time, you will notice that Slash keeps his pickups much closer to the strings than what Adam says he sets up Slash's guitars in those interviews. And, you will also notice that Slash has changed his pickups setting many times through the years. You also need to take in account the Centralab pots he uses in the Derrig as these sound nothing like modern CTS pots. There's a pretty big difference in sound.

So maybe in the end, your mod may be right, and what your hearing as a difference may actually be coming from the guitar, and how it is set up. A slight adjustment in pickup height, or screw height can make a huge difference in your overall sound and feel. These are just some of my thoughts, other opinions may vary.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by BRMSlash » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:22 pm

The current spec has all 22nF coupling caps.

1st stage is basically a 5nF superlead bright channel but with a 22nF coupling cap. There is also the mixer network after it, but with a 180k resistor to ground instead of a 470k into normal channel 1M pot.

I agree with @Unique's comments. I feel I'm reaching the limits of my guitar, cabs, speakers, mics, recording interface etc. I might try a different presence cap, 715p or 716p. My guitar isn't anything fancy (Epiphone snakepit model with upgraded pickups, wiring, pots, swithces & caps etc), so I think nicer tones could be achieved with a higher end guitar.

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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by Roe » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:13 am

A good guitar helps. I'm getting decent results with a 2000 tokai ls320 with ss frets. I changed the magnets of the stock seth lovers to throbak unoriented A5 and removed the pickup covers. Also, light strings do help. Do not use 11-48 for AFD. Try 9s even if you tune to Eb
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Re: S.I.R. 100W SuperLead Schematic pt. II

Post by BRMSlash » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:43 am

I've generally used 10's for most of my clips. The last couple I switched to 10.5 strings. I like the clarity & tone of the 10.5's, particularly when they're fresh. I think the extra tension helps with articulation a bit too.

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