Your 2 cents: What to get, 50- or 100-watt?

Hassan Chop · Post by **Hassan Chop** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:13 am

I want to get a Marshall to be my "dirty channel" amp. I pretty much have my heart set on a non-master volume four-input head.

Right now, I'm sitting on the fence as to which amp's tone I like the best. It seems to my ear that there are charactaristic tonal differences between the two. While there is likely a great deal of common tonal ground that they share, I hear the 50-watt as having a more singing, vocal-like lead sound with more pronounced upper-mid overtones, but a somewhat more ragged-sounding chord crunch, whereas the 100-watt's lead character I would describe as more heavy in the highs and lower mids (or middle mids) and its chord tones as having more sizzling presence and more authority in the bass--more crispy-crunchy. I would describe the 100-watt's tone as being more bell-like or metallic than the 50-watter.

Or maybe I'm full of it and my ears are made of tin.

My problems are that I can't decide which one I like better and that I'm not sure about how to go about getting one. Should I build one (George's kit)? Should I get one off eBay (and mod it to my taste and requirements)? Should I just go to my local generic musical equipment superstore and get a re-issue (and mod it to my taste and requirements)? Maybe I should get an acoustic guitar and become Dan Fogelberg.

So, here's your chance to shine: what are your thoughts? I'll make up my mind eventually, but I thought it would be good to get the opinions of others who may have been through this before, and who think about this kind of stuff.

Thanks

Country Boy Shane · Post by **Country Boy Shane** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:02 pm

I myself am a 100watt dude. I find them to be a lot more musical then the 50 watters. To me, the 50 watters break up a bit to fast for me and they don't have a nice transition like the 100 watters do, which gives the amp a great dynamic range, pure chords, and clear leads that aren't heavily distorted. The 1959-SLP is probably the most versitile amp i've ever heard and that's why i think i like it so much. It can do really hard rock ala. Led Zeppelin;AC/DC... to great blues sounds like Cream and SRV. If you think i'm crazy for saying SRV well i have to say that most of his sound is from Strats with humongo strings on them and those great hands of his. You don't have to go all out and buy an ancient Vibrolux and Super Reverbs to get a good bluesy tone - the 1959-SLP will unlock it's treasures if you play around with it long enough.

In terms of volume, i don't think the 100 watter is that much louder than the 50. Just didn't catch it. All i can say is to get yourself down to guitar center and wail on one of those beasts. Make sure no one is on the phone and you've got you're fingers primed and ready because the whole store is going to hear you.

Whatever you do, don't buy a reissue Marshall. They are charging way too much for their amps now. They don't sound like they claim and they are adding bowlshit FX LOOPS in them and that is a no-no. It may be true bypass but they still shouldn't be adding that. eBay has some great deals if you look around from day to day so other people can get their products on. Great prices too. Don't be intimidated because it's worth saving the dough that could go into your gas tank or your car payment. After that, definately get a P2P board from Velvet George. It was the best mod i've ever done to my reissue and it will be sure to make your amp sound as close to the real deal as possible.

With these words i grant you the power to be wise and ROCK ON!

Hassan Chop · Post by **Hassan Chop** » Fri Nov 21, 2003 6:45 pm

Thank you, CBS, for taking the time and brainpower to help a fellow rock guitarist in his hour of need.

It's like this: Basically I think that IN GENERAL the 50-watters have a more attractive lead tone, and that IN GENERAL the 100-watters have the rhythm sound that's tougher.

One thing that's definitely in favor of the 100-watt is that I'd rather have an amp that's louder than I'm going to need than one that might not be all the situation requires. I'm not at all too proud to turn it down, use an attenuator, or put in a post-phase-inverter master volume.

I guess I can always go after "sweetness" with EQ...

Thanks again, Shane.

Anybody else?

Hassan Chop · Post by **Hassan Chop** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 7:25 am

I went to see a show last night. One of the guitarists works at the local Sam Ash, and told me he'd let me play a bit through his 1987X Plexi Re-Issue. Since he plays in dropped-D and I don't, and I didn't bring one of my axes, he popped out a few chords and leads for me with his amp cranked up to demonstrate it for me.

He knows that I'm looking for a non-master-volume 4-input [at least] 50- or 100-watt Marshall head. He also knows that I'm looking at getting whichever used on eBay or at a pawn shop or laying one away at the store where he works. I'm not getting ANY salesmanship vibe from him at all. Further, I don't feel I owe him anything. If I decide to buy a new Re-Issue, I'll buy it from him, if I can, but I'm not going to spend hundreds of extra dollars just to put more commission in his pocket.

Here's what I learned:

The 50-watt isn't loud enough. Oh it's loud all right, but it isn't TOO loud. I want an amp that's more than I need. I reckon it's like horsepower, brakes, handling, money or sex: you can never really have too much. ("Everything to excess! Moderation is for monks." --Lazarus Long)

Live and in person, the 50-watter has a perfectly acceptable tone, to my ear. The "more ragged breakup in overdrive" or whatever I said in the a previous post wasn't evident. I'd be perfectly happy to start out with that amp's sound, and go from there with different tubes, boost pedals and so on to get to where MY Holy Grail of tone is.

So unless I find an unbelievably good bargain on a 1987, I'll be narrowing my search to 1959-type amps. I've got a few I'm watching on eBay right now, getting ready to bid or pass. They're Re-Issues from the Eighties to the most recent, mostly, and a couple of mid-Seventies non-MV 100-watters. I'm going to start trolling through the local pawnshops, too.

I don't figure it's a sin to mod a recent Re-Issue. They seem to cry out for it. I don't really give a damn about the effects loop; I doubt I'll use it. If I do, I'll get what I deserve. No matter what I get, as soon as I can afford it (and maybe even before) I'll be getting in touch with George to hash out what I need on a point-to-point, etc., to get the sound I'm after.

Country Boy, I don't think you're crazy for saying SRV tone from a Marshall. You gave it away long before then. (I doubt "Tin Pan Alley" was recorded through a Marshall, though.) I've heard some really excellent clean tone from Marshall Plexis, very shimmering, crystalline, beautiful. And the blues is the blues. You can play the blues through a kazoo--it's all about how much you are able to let through, not your equipment. (Just try and stay away from accordions, though. Nobody wants to hear that. Use accordions for their proper purpose: shotgun targets.)

Okay, that's enough of my yakkin' for a while.

Country Boy Shane · Post by **Country Boy Shane** » Sat Nov 22, 2003 4:52 pm

Excellent descriptions of the 1987. I think anybody looking for a detailed explanation of this head should check this out. Thanks for saying i'm not insane. This is proof to all those SRV freaks that you don't have to buy his exact setup to get a bad-as-hell blues sound. It's all in the fingers i tell ya!! So stop with the nonsense. I'm not saying Fender is bad(I own a couple) but, blues tone shouldn't be focused on just Fender. Good day and ROCK ON!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:54 pm

Country Boy Shane wrote:Excellent descriptions of the 1987. I think anybody looking for a detailed explanation of this head should check this out. Thanks for saying i'm not insane. This is proof to all those SRV freaks that you don't have to buy his exact setup to get a bad-as-hell blues sound. It's all in the fingers i tell ya!! So stop with the nonsense. I'm not saying Fender is bad(I own a couple) but, blues tone shouldn't be focused on just Fender. Good day and ROCK ON!

I'm confused....I mean, some only think of Fender when you say SRV......others point to his Dumble ownership as the secret, but I think Stevie may have given a clue in this late '80s (Sober Stevie-era) interview for Guitarist Magazine in the UK:

Interviewer: "You used to use two Vibroverb amps".

Stevie Ray Vaughan: "Yeah, I used to use two Fender Vibroverbs, two Super Reverbs and a Dumble (Howard Dumble amps made in Texas). I had used Marshall amps years ago and I had a real clean one. It was a first or second series head overdriven Fender – I’m not sure. I like the Dumble a whole lot when I first got it, but every one I’ve had since then, they’ve all sounded worse in different ways – I don’t know what it is."

"My favorite rig lately has been an old Marshall Major, the PA top with four inputs. I found the head, plugged it in, turned it up, and it sounded…right. I use that head with the Dumble cabinet with four EV speakers in it. Then I use my other Dumble heads with another cabinet, and run a Leslie cabinet with that, and it sounds strong and clear."

SO....two things can be deduced from common knowledge and this interview -- "Drunk Stevie" liked Fender AND "Sober Stevie" liked Marshall.

Scarey, huh? Sort of a 12-Step Marshall Program as it were?

"Hello, I'm Sonar and I'M a Marshallholic"

Disclaimer: My legal counsel has advised that I shouldn't make comment following up on SRV's observation concerning the problems he had with Dumble amplifiers. Of course, if I DIDN'T HAVE legal counsel, I'd probably have had enough money left for several Dumble amplifiers!

gnugear · Post by **gnugear** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:25 am

Hassan Chop!

I've got a mint '97 1987x reissue that's been modded to '68 specs with an OEI transformer. I'm thinking of selling it so I can finish building one of George's amps. Let me know if you're interested!

chris