THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:23 pm

VelvetGeorge wrote:replaced the stock signal and presence caps with Sozo Vintage +

shortened and rerouted wires for less noise and no squeal

No break in or anything. Just fired it up and hit record.

Still a bit too harsh and not very ballsy sounding, but it's been a very noticeable upgrade with the SoZos! Now I can hear beef and a certain amount of low chunk in the sound. Also the before missed nice and creamy mids.

I think, with a 'proper' OT and maybe some (real) Tesla, Tungsram, Brimar or Mullard pre's it's done!

Larry

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:26 pm

Tweaking (and fixing bad wiring) part 2

I found a bad solder connection on V1b plate and fixed it. I wonder if it was causing some of the noise and squeal problem???? More noise went away after these tweaks, so maybe.

This time I installed some NOS Allen Bradleys and raised the PI cap value to 120pf.

I also hooked the NF wire right to the 8 ohm tap.

Same deal here, I started with ton controls on 5, them dimed them. I couldn't find the pick at first, so there's some finger picked clean stuff with the neck pickup and volume on the guitar set low.

Intersting how, now the all tone on 5 setting seems a little woofy.

George

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:28 pm

I do have pretty much free reign on both amps. I'll have to contact the owners before swapping output transformers. Just because I always do as a courtesy, and to confirm the expense.

Next up: lower filtering. I'm starting to like this amp!

VG

Flames1950 · Post by **Flames1950** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:32 pm

VelvetGeorge wrote:I do have pretty much free reign on both amps. I'll have to contact the owners before swapping output transformers. Just because I always do as a courtesy, and to confirm the expense.

Next up: lower filtering. I'm starting to like this amp!

VG

If you were the one that paid the big bucks for it, and are now paying to have it made to sound right, would you still say that?

Sounds better yet though.....I could hear the ghosting before, and you're gonna lower the filtering.....hmmmm.........OK I can't blame you.

Are you thinking '68-ish on the screens and preamp, since the first stage split cathode is already set up that way?

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:41 pm

Slowly the amp gets the tonal charism of the good old ones

I'd recommend a change in the tone stack to 56K/250p or at least to 47K/330p - that might tame the still slightly annoying high mids.

Larry

BashCoder · Post by **BashCoder** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:46 pm

Getting more and more musical with each round, George. Very interesting progression.

From another perspective, this is really a great testimonial to Metro Amps because when you're done with it... Well... I think it will be a HW Marshall chassis and PT, with everything else Metro-sexualized!

It's yet another validation that your choices are better than Marshall's, George, even for their elite amps.

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:54 pm

Flames1950 wrote:Sounds better yet though.....I could hear the ghosting before, and you're gonna lower the filtering.....hmmmm.........OK I can't blame you.

You may decide between the plague and the cholera - between ghostings or a stiff amp

Larry

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:59 pm

Low filtering it is! I put a dual 16uf can in the premap section and dual 32's in the screen supply. It doesn't come through as obvious in the clips, but the amp has really opened up and is compressing in a more musical way. Real fun to play now.

I do think it could have better 3D tone with a better OT. I'll contact the customer and see what he wants. Overall, I think the mods have all been improvements.

First clip is tones on 5. Second one is everything dimed, dropped D.

VG

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Mon May 08, 2006 11:13 pm

George,

so thats a total of 32u on the screens? i would like to hear what u have right now with 16u on the screens.

interesting how i hear oscilation happening when everything is dimed. rid of that and the tone sounds good man.

it maybe a tad bit farty but it can be tweaked slightly for that guitar/speakers... me thinks parasitic oscilation is the only problem (to my ears anyway) with the dimed tone right now.

Mark

Crunchboy · Post by **Crunchboy** » Tue May 09, 2006 8:35 am

Unchained sounds terrible. Diming the treb and pres just doesn't seem to work anymore. The other clips all sound good. It sounded good stock. I felt that the tone knobs just needed to be adjusted to get a great tone. For VH, just boost it with a mid/gain boost.

And the lack of objectivity on this board is a joke. Most of you are so biased away from Marshall/Dagnall and toward Metro/sozo/Dagnall replica that you're incapable of making a fair assesment. Oh, how different your responses would be if you didn't know what you were listening to. If George had posted that first clip of the stock HW and said it was his latest build, you guys would be saying it was the best thing you ever heard.

This forum has a credibilty issue. Listen with your ears, not your eyes.

MacGaden · Post by **MacGaden** » Tue May 09, 2006 8:43 am

Crunchboy wrote: This forum has a credibilty issue. Listen with your ears, not your eyes.

You need to get yours examined. As well as what they are attached to.

77custom · Post by **77custom** » Tue May 09, 2006 9:13 am

Crunchboy wrote:Unchained sounds terrible. Diming the treb and pres just doesn't seem to work anymore. The other clips all sound good. It sounded good stock. I felt that the tone knobs just needed to be adjusted to get a great tone. For VH, just boost it with a mid/gain boost.

And the lack of objectivity on this board is a joke. Most of you are so biased away from Marshall/Dagnall and toward Metro/sozo/Dagnall replica that you're incapable of making a fair assesment. Oh, how different your responses would be if you didn't know what you were listening to. If George had posted that first clip of the stock HW and said it was his latest build, you guys would be saying it was the best thing you ever heard.

This forum has a credibilty issue. Listen with your ears, not your eyes.

Although I agree with you on the unchained clip, it does sound muddy. But, for you to come here and start to rip people apart for experimenting and their opinion, is uncalled for. You can go to the "other" corksniffing boards and do it. I personally have learned a great deal on this forum. More than any of the other "smartass/I know more than you" forums. George serves us here with his experiences and new products, from what I can tell so far he actually cares about others opinions and feelings if you don't like it here, go somewhere else!!!

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:10 am

Crunchboy wrote:If George had posted that first clip of the stock HW and said it was his latest build, you guys would be saying it was the best thing you ever heard.

Just with other words you've said: "You all here are deaf, all except me!"

Larry (still with fantastic ears - otherwise he couldn't do his business anymore

)

BashCoder · Post by **BashCoder** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:17 am

Crunchboy wrote:And the lack of objectivity on this board is a joke. Most of you are so biased away from Marshall/Dagnall and toward Metro/sozo/Dagnall replica that you're incapable of making a fair assesment.

Sounds like somebody needs a hug!

...or maybe you just need better monitoring for your computer. I think if you listened through the clips objectively, you'd realize the comments are accurate and relevant to the sound clips posted. Thin is really thin, muddy is muddy, fuzzy is fuzzy, etc. It's really pretty obvious how the sound is changing through this progression.

Whether or not you prefer thin or muddy or fuzzy is another matter. It's perfectly cool if you prefer the stock sound. But how you leap from there to opinions about people, their integrity and their motivations is beyond me.

mightymike · Post by **mightymike** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:50 am

I think the upgrades George did, improved the tone, but when the core of your tone (the OT) is lacking,there's only so perfume you can put on a whore. The improvements so far are like whip cream on dog shit imho.
Maybe NOS Tubes and Caps will help.

I think anyone of George's OTs would improve this dud, which is all this amp could be. This is just one amp. There were vintage duds ocaisionally too. Maybe this isn't representative of a typical HW, but if it is, Marshall is getting a free how to work out the bugs seminar from George. If they read this, and copy what he has done to improve all their amps,it would help QC for Marshall, and could potentialy hurt George's business, but it will help the players who buy these.

and I am biased HELL YES!

...towards the best and don't give a flying rats ass what anyone thinks. If they stop having the best, I'll buy from someone else who does.