THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Everything from original vintage Marshalls to reissues.

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MacGaden
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Re: Can you really tel the difference?

Post by MacGaden » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:18 pm

acoustic madness wrote:....But most of all, can your audience here the difference and do they really care?
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1: Can your costumers tell the difference ? And does it make a difference to them ?

2: Take your own advice from your tag-line..

Welcome to Metro. We listen..
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Post by wdelaney72 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:30 pm

A.M.
As with anyone else, you are entitled to your opinion and you have the right to express it if you so choose. But, before making a statement like yours with the tone that you've chosen, you should really read a bit further in this here forum. While doing so you'll find the following:
1) An army of folks here who would go on record of George's customer service, professionalism, and credibility. He's WITHOUT QUESTION the most honest person I've ever done business with, which is is something that very few can say about Marshall.
2) Plenty of people who are in the electronics profession that can attest to the fact that Marshall has compromised quality on their components... especially the OT.
3) George has made the rounds in the flesh at various amp shows... equipment in hand. Yes, sound clips are not gospel, but I've heard the real thing and Marshall is failling WAY short.

The fact of the matter is, Marshall has been hiding behind their name and legacy for a long time while at the some time packaging shit and trying to sell it as a diamond. George has gone on record many times and said no-one is a bigger fan of Marshall than he is. ALL OF US had hoped the HW series to be all it was advertised, but instead it's turned out to be a compromised product with an uncompromised price tag.

If you're happy with your HW or the other Marshall products, that's great... I hope it serves you well. The rest of will continue to take the enjoyment of building it ourselves or buying one of George's amps where we know we're getting the real deal.

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Re: Can you really tel the difference?

Post by MacGaden » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:09 pm

acoustic madness wrote:I read with interest the remarks about the various modifications to this amp from a completely different perspective.
As an acoustic guitar maker of some 20 years standing, I find it laughable that anyone listening to the various sound clips of this amplifier could give any credence to the results.
First of all: What
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"Play it right, Dad ! No More Dwiddely Dwiddely !
My son Adam at 3 years old. Best advice I ever got..

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Post by neikeel » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:23 pm

Steady on guys aren't we all a little touchy.

All the points made are totally valid.

We are the converted but should not get too wrapped up either.

The audience can rarely tell the difference but as Mark says we can and that is what inspires us.

Welcome acoustic madness :D
Neil

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Post by VelvetGeorge » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:01 pm

I certainly hope that no one will judge my work by the sound clips. I have yet to post a clip that I felt did any justice to any amp ever. There is too much about an amp that you have to play yourself and feel. Only if you have played a lot of great amps can you tell when an amp you're hearing has that "thing".

I won't even go into the terrible affects of MP3 encoding...... ***BARF***

acoustic madness, welcome.

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Post by Eargasm » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:16 pm

Edited
Last edited by Eargasm on Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fuck it.

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Post by acoustic madness » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:01 pm

Thank you all for your welcome here, even those who don't like what I wrote seem friendly enough.
I do seem to have stirred up a bit of a hornets nest, but I do hope I have made many of you think more deeply.
Some have obviously misunderstood the points I was trying to make, and some seem to have missed them.
The main one is that even with the very best Hi Fi equipment, it is difficult to reproduce the subtleties of sound from mp3 clips let alone on the average PC sound systems.
I don't decry the efforts of the author of the original experimenting at all, in fact if it wasn't for folks like him we would no doubt still be trying to reach our audiences through bits of tin rolled up to make megaphones. It is more the difficulty I have in making a truly useful comparison in these situations. The variables that exist are too many between the performances used to demonstrate the changes in tonality and the listener for them to give more than a hint of the truth but at least the effort has been made. I suspect that these improvements or otherwise, depending on your individual point of view would be much more clearly heard and understood by anyone listening in the same room as the player and the amplifier.
As I said in my original post, keep up the good work.
And to the person asking why anyone should want to buy a hand made acoustic (or electric guitar come to that) rather than one from some Korean/Chinese/Indian/Mexican mass producer, I simply say this, not all drivers buying a Porsche rather than a Ford are doing so just to display their wealth and status, some actually enjoy the superior performance and enjoyment of ownership, and are prepared to make sacrifices to achieve their desires.
My reputation as a guitar builder is largely as a result of attention to detail, quality of materials and, I hope, an understanding of what folks are telling me they, as individuals want from their guitar. I make a point of not selling guitars but of providing what my customers want and need. I spend a lot of time listening to what they want and trying to make sure that I properly understand that sound that is in their head so that I can reproduce it for them. Tinkering with an acoustic guitar after it is built to get the sound right is not a viable option. Sure you can alter the nut, saddle, bridge pins and strings to fine tune it a little, but if the sound isn
Wear a blindfold and listen properly

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Post by gutpile » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:35 pm

George, I have been working on a mission statement for you:

My reputation as an amp builder is largely as a result of attention to detail, quality of materials and, I hope, an understanding of what folks are telling me they, as individuals want from their amp. I make a point of not selling amps but of providing what my customers want and need. I spend a lot of time listening to what they want and trying to make sure that I properly understand the sound that is in their head so that I can help them achieve the tone they seek. Tinkering with an amp after it is built to get the sound right is the only way unique and individual tones are born. You can alter the resistors, capacitors and transformers to fine tune it to your individual taste, but if you want to sound like everyone else then you have wasted your own time and someone else

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Post by Eargasm » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:06 am

Edited
Last edited by Eargasm on Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fuck it.

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Post by wdelaney72 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:44 am

AM,
No worries... one love!

Welcome to the forum. :)

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Post by Ryan » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:04 pm

After reading this thread I realize how little I know about this subject and how lame any opinion I might have would be. I know how to play a little and I know what it sounds like when I like the sound, but I don't have the experience or vocabulary to explain what I like and what I want. Someone like George could build anything I asked for, and its like some kind of Dante's hell that I can't speak the language enough to ask him for what I want. Its almost funny.

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Post by VelvetGeorge » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:27 pm

No need to speak the lingo Ryan. Lots of people ask me for amps tweaked to sound a like a particular song or player.

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Post by Ryan » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:07 am

Thank you George, I appreciate you making it easy for me. I'm not only dealing with the notion that I don't know crap about amps, but I have the trauma of finding out for the first time how many really good guitar players there are out there. My own ranking has dropped a few hundred points after hearing some of these guys.

So if I said I want to play a strat and get something like the Hendrix / Trower sound only without a lot of boxes (something about the purist in me hates stomp boxes) with the exception of a univibe-type thing for that effect - is it possible?

I thought about 100 watters since thats what Hendrix used to such great effect, but even though I know they aren't "THAT" much louder than a 50 watt, I would probably have to play attenuated all the time. To my ears, the attenuators never sound quite like the naked amp. I wanted to get your opinion on those converter things that let you put lower watt power tubes in the same sockets - do they hurt the amp? What do they sound like in your opinion compared to the attenuators?

If the tube things don't work, I thought a 50 watter might. I know you're working on one, but your customers seem to lean heavily into the les paul / EVH sounds and you'll probably build to suit them. I like those sounds when someone else plays them, but they just aren't me.

Bytheway let me tell you that your 100 watters sound not just good, but great. To me they are indistinguishable from the old ones in every way.... and I'm kind of a snob about that - you made me into a believer.

So to summarize my rambling

1. What would you reccommend for someone who is married to a strat and wants the Hendrix BOG / Robin Trower type sound without distortion boxes?

2. Do those tube-replacer-thingys work? Do they damage the amp? Do they sound better or worse than the attenuators to you?

3. I think your amps sound so good that each one you build drives down the value, if not the price of all those old $5,000 heads. To show you my money is where my mouth is, I'm probably going to sell a very nice 59 bassman to buy something from you.

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Post by VelvetGeorge » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:20 am

Thanks Ryan, I appreciate your kind words. I can build to accommodate your needs, but I admit to being a LP/Marshall type of guy myself.

There are tonal characteristics in a 100 watt that a 50 watt just doesn't have. I'm not saying a 100 is better than a 50. But some of us can only be 100% satisfied with that 100 watt thing.

The tube adapters work, but I never got really happy with them tonally.

The 67 or 68 will hit your Hendrix/Trower start sounds. No problem. The 68 does have more gain on tap, so lends itself more to no need for pedals.


PLEASE, please, please.....before you sell your Bassman.....call me and lets talk it over. I almost certainly can't afford to offer a cash/amp trade. But I at least have to try.


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Post by Ryan » Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:35 pm

George,

You're on.... I will just turn the Bassman into cash and then send the cash to you anyway, so it would probably work out better for both of us to work something out. I'll snoop around your site for contact information and give you a call.... normal business hours, I suppose?

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