THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

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mushmouth
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Post by mushmouth » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:25 pm

So George, did you end up getting this Bassman?

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by yngwie308 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:42 am

Yes he did!
Anybody have anything new or recent on Handwireds? Are they even still making the 1959HW model??
I do know that the output transformers make superb bookends, paperweights.. :lol:
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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by yngwie308 » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:08 am

Apparently not :lol: .
Oh well it was worth a try. :)
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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by electricskychurch » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:16 pm

if you can get a 2061x second hand for a fair price , upgrade it with a good OT and caps, then it sounds really really good with the 2x12 (and decent speakers !) .
the stock OT (if it 's a recent one that doesn't blow up as may the PT ! ) didn't sound that bad but it can be improved.
obviously a good clone can be as good !
the stock caps in those HW amps are definetly bright and stiff sounding and i suppose that's why they don't sound that good stock (compared to some good clones) .
they are what i would replace first in those amps.
personnaly, i prefer my upgraded 2061X over my 1974x (both upgraded with original OT's and good OT clones i compared them with & mustard caps .
they both don't have the warmth , tone thickness and harmonics of a good jtm45 but the 2061 seems to have less of a " dry" tone to my ears than the 1974.
the stock g12m20 in the 1974x is sounding very good for clean tones but has some " harsh " (not that pleasant) high mids when pushed.

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by electricskychurch » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:32 pm

i had not really played much with the last stock dagnall OT i received for my 2061X as, after i blew up 3 before this one, i got a bit fed up.
so i had installed an original RS EL84 OT that sounded great in that amp.
i compared it with a shinrock RS EL84 OT clone (that are said to be among the very best clone of this OT but prepare to be patient if you want one as it's months to wait !) that sounds great as well, a bit brighter/ clearer with a bit less mids what makes a very nice tone in that amp as well (depending on your guitar and pu's as i noticed much differences between my gibson guitars on this amp, maybe more than with some other amps).
today, i compared it with the stock dagnall OT and i was surprised to hear it was sounding better than what i reminded. different frequency response, with more mids and presence (upper mids, that gives it a slightly more modern tone maybe but that's a personal feeling) than the Shinrock.
it's all a matter of taste i suppose, like some people prefer MM or Heyboer over another brand.
all that to say, that if anybody has one and thinks it sounds too bright stock, i would say that just by changing the capacitors, you can't get a good tone with it (if you have some good speakers to use it with and a good guitar as well ).
anyway ,i have seen 3 different types of RS EL84 OT's from the sixties through the 70's i guess, so i suppose they might have sound a bit different although i have not compared the two different ones i have.

i met a guy 2 years ago , that bought the head amp jtm45/100 pete townshend LE (i took the cabs) and from what i heard, he recorded some good guitar tones with it ("slightly" semi crunch, like the good rhythm guitar tones you can hear nowdays ) .
he was very happy of the tone that amp had (although i would certainly have replaced the stock capacitors as well)

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by yngwie308 » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:46 pm

Thanks for your reply esc, I was commenting particularly on the 1959HW and is it still being produced and have they made any changes after the issues with quality and reliability, ect.
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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by electricskychurch » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:15 pm

i haven't heard the 1959HW but i would tend to think that it's about the same problem as the 2061x and 1974x, changing the caps (with mustard or sozo premium's, the premium beeing really sweet sounding) should really improve the tone.
also , verify if the circuits and component values are the same as the original version you want to have (they sometimes make little changes) but if i rememberwell you customized yours .
i didn't read they are stopping to produce the 1959HW or any other HW amp nor they did modified them (except for the crappy 2061x/ 1974x transformers) but who knows !
i haven't heard about those amps blowing their transformers but changing the OT for the best clone available, should also improve the tone over the stock OT.
i haven't tried Georges dagnall 100w clone yet.
i have one sitting on a shelf for a while but i can't use my 100w amps for the moment as i don't have the right place to do it actualy (i'm desparatly waiting for a new place to install my recording sudio !) .
i suppose this must be one of the best 1959 superlead dagnall OT clones out there, with the MM and one or two others .
i like MM OT's and despite what some people say, they are great transformers .
personnaly i found their O45JT ( 784 103 clone ) was the closest to my original 784 103 OT (in my 66' park 45) among the ones i tested .
the other was very good as well but maybe brighter although i still have this one in that amp for the moment (see my park 45 /rebuilt jtm45 ri post) .
i also compared the MM bassman tweed (5f6-a) OT with an original OT , in the same amp and even if there are some differences, i would say it's a very nice OT (as the one i used in my Deluxe Tweed 5E3 clone ).
i read some people are prefering Mojo OT's for this or that amp, better than MM's.
i haven't heard Mojo's OT's but i'd be curious to know who makes them and if they are like TAD OT's ?

the problem with the reissue HW amps , is that their speakers are not really sounding that great for some of them !
they don't have thay creamy tone we love in some pulsonic equipped celestion speakers .
i have the 1960A & B H W cabs and even if their speakers are good speakers, they are not the tone i prefer.
the most succefull reissue i heard from celestion might be the " blue vox" T530 .
i suppose because they still use kurt & mueller cones like the original ones, even if they certainly changed through years .
in another hand the ones with 1777 cones are not reissues of the pulsonic cones we often compare them with (but earlier models) , unlike the g12h30 55 hz / 102 014 cone.
i'd be curious to compare the g12h30 anniversary and g12m25 ri's with the early greenback ones with 1777 cones, maybe they don't sound that far.
i haven't played much with the g12h30 anniv but the original pulsonic sound is more pleasant to me even if i like some reissue speakers as well.
there are so many speakers now, certainly some other speakers than the ususal used with those amps could be interesting to try (a bit russian roulette if you can't hear them before with the same type of equipment as used) ,

i have to say that if i had to buy one of these high end reissues or clones , i would buy a metroamp kit, for several reasons.
chances are that my next JTM45 amp kit will be a metroamp .
i think i will open a topic in the metropoulos amplification forlder about their good quality !

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by yngwie308 » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:47 pm

Great reply electricskychurch, I have used the 30H Anniversary speakers in my Crate Class A combos, with good effect. I just need to break in my HW cabs I think.
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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by yngwie308 » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:35 pm

Exciting day at the olde yngwie household, my speaker cables came and I rolled the HW cabs out into the 2nd garage and set up the 1959HW in the hallway, even with the garage entry door and laundry room door shut can hear it quite well in the hallway.. :lol:
This is with the 25ft cables. They are great, nice and fat 12 gauge. Not noticing any of the other noises I usually experience, only a faint mechanical hum with the standby switch on. I will look into that,the faint hum is steady and you have to listen closely to the amp to hear it.
I was so excited, got to try my Analogman/Outlier YJM308 pedal full out with the amp. Tried my Washburn SS80 first for some JB action. That was awesome, then my '52 Goldtop,then broke out the YJM, which was having some trouble staying in tune, but mostly because I was thrashing the hell out of it.. :twisted: :twisted: :lol: .
I did notice that it is the same volume from number 2 through 6 or so, cranked up to 8 it becomes more distorted. I tried linking channels, this was great with the P-90's, the Gary Moore Heritage with the EMG 81's, the linking wasn't really necessary with the output from those pickups.
Played for over an hour which I haven't done for some time :D :D
Will post more of the experiments in the HW zone soon.
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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by novosibir » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:08 pm

electricskychurch wrote: i haven't heard Mojo's OT's but i'd be curious to know who makes them and if they are like TAD OT's ?
Correct! TAD's "US-made" trannies are from Mojo, mostly made by Heyboer!

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by sebastiano » Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:07 am

With a 1959HW of one of my customer,I replaced some coupling caps with Sozo standard,some resistors in the power supply with some metal oxide (to my ears some metal oxide or metal film perform soundwise more similar to the old Piher or Iskra carbon film,than the newer carbon film) ,and replaced all filter caps with 6X LCR or 6X ARS 50/50 can capacitors,and the sound came to life!!! The filter caps make the big tonal change,also without change coupling caps ecc ecc,in my opinion...... 8)
For me there is no FT or TAD or Ruby gold cap that sound good as old Daly or LCR,or good as a new ARS (that Marshall used as stock filter caps until 4-5 years ago...very bright behaviour but with warm mids).In my opinion sounwise,JJ are more musical sounding than the FT (that have very poor parameters of ripple current)

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by electricskychurch » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:54 pm

the problems with Filter caps is that nobody seems to agree !
i never did a test in an amp by just swapping some filter caps but i'd be curious to hear some recordings comparing some.

it seems Mojo and TAD have also another big US company building transformers for them but i can't remember the name although i had never heard about them before.

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by daneswede » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:16 am

It is amazing to me this thread still goes strong. George. I just want to say. You are a testament not only to your TRUE and non faultering or wavering friends that you even let display their own Marshall re-cretions after buying your own kits then selling and advertising , and on your WEBSITE NO LESS.

Some im sure built their own kits from starch and flour they will say im sure. maybe so, however you simply are an inspiration to countless . I LOVE watching your 1968 12000 series 100 watt kit with a standard blackback G12 behind it cranking out Van Halen better than Van Halen.! LOL It sounds so good.

Everywhere I look I see Metroamps.

ANyway, Id like to accept this Acedamy award for all those who................

KUDOS G-Man

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by daneswede » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:21 am

sebastiano wrote:With a 1959HW of one of my customer,I replaced some coupling caps with Sozo standard,some resistors in the power supply with some metal oxide (to my ears some metal oxide or metal film perform soundwise more similar to the old Piher or Iskra carbon film,than the newer carbon film) ,and replaced all filter caps with 6X LCR or 6X ARS 50/50 can capacitors,and the sound came to life!!! The filter caps make the big tonal change,also without change coupling caps ecc ecc,in my opinion...... 8)
For me there is no FT or TAD or Ruby gold cap that sound good as old Daly or LCR,or good as a new ARS (that Marshall used as stock filter caps until 4-5 years ago...very bright behaviour but with warm mids).In my opinion sounwise,JJ are more musical sounding than the FT (that have very poor parameters of ripple current)
F&T were supposed to be the ones to have but now... It never ends. A constant perfection for the perfect amp. I had a 1959 HW . In actuality I got one of the first ones and paid out my ass for it. It actually sounded good. not aggressive. But with a Marshall Shredmaster, darn good I have to admit. nOT as good as a vintage Marshall however. but not bad at all. The mods overthe last year or so changed this amp into like another true 69'! It is amazing what many cats in here can do. :!:

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Re: THE HW Marshall thread. Tweaking it step by step.

Post by yngwie308 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:39 am

Sold my HW cabs to help pay some of the freight on my latest SS100 Washburn and may I say, the weakest link is now gone....These cabs look the part but were frankly a dissapointment to me in the tone equation.
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