YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Inspirational tones.

Moderators: VelvetGeorge, BUG

User avatar
yngwie308
Senior Member
Posts: 4623
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 11:21 pm
Location: Valhalla, Arizona

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by yngwie308 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:31 am

Yes Yngwie has created his own category and he is just as vital these days as ever. His skills and performance art have not dropped off at all.
He is truly one of the greatest guitar masters and like those other game changers he did change the music bringing a classical sensibility to rock and roll/metal and forged his own style.
A true maestro and genius I will always regard him in my top 5 guitarists ever.
yngwie308 :rock: :rock: :hairband: :worthy: :worthy:
http://www.vintagewashburn.com/Electric ... evens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.treblebooster.net/bolin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UliJonRoth
New Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:41 am
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by UliJonRoth » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:35 pm

out of topic...
yngwie308, is there any way to get in touch with you, besides PM???

i would need to ask you a couple of questions about those old mods to yjm308 because i can't get any reply from outlier..

thank you in advance,

User avatar
yngwie308
Senior Member
Posts: 4623
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 11:21 pm
Location: Valhalla, Arizona

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by yngwie308 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:37 am

UliJonRoth wrote:out of topic...
yngwie308, is there any way to get in touch with you, besides PM???

i would need to ask you a couple of questions about those old mods to yjm308 because i can't get any reply from outlier..

thank you in advance,
Sure you can email me at davidtalkin@yahoo.com
Dave
http://www.vintagewashburn.com/Electric ... evens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.treblebooster.net/bolin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Blix
Senior Member
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:42 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by Blix » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:42 am

Just a heads up, DOD/Digitech is on a roll latele and have revamped their reissue line.

The current Overdrive/Preamp 250 is now grey spec and sounds fantastic!

Image
I have a great built clone which is 100% correct yet prefer the new reissue.



And here's my baby, an 88' YJM :)

Image

wildtigerjungleman
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:46 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by wildtigerjungleman » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:14 am

Based on what has been said here and what I researched further it seems that the true secret to Yngwie's Alcatrazz Metallic Live '84 and early Rising Force tone could be the result of the grey DOD 250 overdrive/preamp, the Roland DC-10 analog echo and the Boss CE-1 chorus ensemble working together synergistically.

The interesting thing is that the DC-10 and CE-1 are both apparently capable of boosting and driving the signal further through their preamps, even when the effects are bypassed. Here's what a poster said on a forum regarding the DC-10:
SP2333 wrote:People are forgetting the Roland DC10 analogue delay noise maker. It has been in his signal chain since day 1 and is still there today. The far left knob controls input gain and you can boost your input gain tremendously. Even with all delay bypassed the input gain control is still active.
And here's what someone else said a few pages back in this thread regarding the CE-1:
RisingForce and yngwie308 wrote:However, the most important effect is (besides the DOD250) the Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. This pedal was used on several of the early recordings including the Steeler and Alcatrazz albums "No parole from rock'n roll", "Live Sentence" and "Metallic Live 84" video. The interesting thing about the CE-1 is that it was not designed for guitar (impedance etc) so it adds some extra overdrive and boosts the signal even further, especially in a live configuration.
1985 pedalboard:
Image
Image
Image

If you look at pictures of his 1985 pedalboard you can see that the DC-10 output apparently goes into the DOD input, so maybe his DiMarzio HS-3s were boosted by the DC-10 before going into the DOD. The CE-1 seems to be gone from his 1985 pedalboard though. IMHO, you can hear how his tone has slightly less gain on the 1985 concert compared to the Alcatrazz 1984 concert since the CE-1 is gone. His tone is also slightly less percussive and more mid-ranged and honky (mid-ranged tone could be EQ or different speakers though).

1984 pedalboard:
Image

In the 1984 pedalboard, the DC-10 and the CE-1 are both present and it seems that the DOD output goes into the CE-1 input, but I'm not quite sure, and I'm unable to see whether or not the DC-10 output goes into the DOD input, so I'm a bit confused. Perhaps he ran his pedals differently in 1984 compared to 1985. His 1984 tone was the best of the two.

So based on the 1984 and 1985 pedalboard pictures it would seem that his drive sound (excluding other effects) could have gone like this:
  • Fender celluloid extra heavy picks ->
  • DiMarzio HS-3 (Close to the strings with disconnected tone pots.) ->
  • Roland DC-10 (Looks like input level is either on approx. 1.8 / 6.8-7 or 3.8 / 9.8 on 1985 pedalboard. Difficult to see due to lack of knob and low resolution.) ->
  • DOD 250 (Gain maxed out with level at 9 o'clock.) ->
  • Boss CE-1 (Unknown.) ->
  • Marshall 1987x (EL34 or KT77 tubes.) ->
  • Celestion G12-65 speakers
Here's some interesting info regarding the DC-10 that I found on this site:
MATRIX wrote:legendary Roland DC-10 Analog Echo that was used by Yngwie Malmsteen... This Echo unit is loaded with several JRC4558D chips that made the TS-808 Tube screamer famous. It also is based off of the most popular MN3005 bucket brigade chip as well.
Unfortunately I couldn't find the schematics for the DC-10 anywhere.

Here's the schematics for the CE-1: http://www.freeinfosociety.com/media.php?id=1884

It'd be cool if somebody isolated the preamps of the DC-10 and CE-1 and built pedals of them like Dunlop did with the Echoplex Preamp pedal.

IMO, Yngwie and EVH both had very airy, percussive tones in their early days. Notice how when they hammer-on and pull-off on the lower wound strings how much tight low end thump there is. It's as if there's this bassy, airy force driving each note. Great bright and airy yet warm and bassy, percussive attack. What did they have in common? They both used Marshall NMV amps and used their echo units as preamps (Echoplex/DC-10), perhaps even unknowingly so. It most likely gave them that nice percussive and bright yet warm tone. And don't forget that Yngwie used Fender celluloid extra heavy picks in his early days. Celluloid picks have a crisp, glassy and liquidy tone.

BTW: I'm watching demo videos of the CE-1 on YouTube as I write this and it becomes quite obvious how much the 1984 Alcatrazz live tone was affected by it. There's that tight low end thump right there.

wildtigerjungleman
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:46 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by wildtigerjungleman » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:09 pm

I did some further research and it seems that he probably maxed out the volume (input gain) setting on his DC-10. The level was also set at -20dB and he seemingly used the low output setting (at least in 1985).

Here's another picture of his Alcatrazz Metallic Live '84 rig. If you zoom in on the picture it looks like the DC-10 volume knob is either on 2.5-3, 6 or maxed out. The CE-1 looks like it's set on the high input setting.

Image

The pictures below are from 1992. You can see that the DC-10 volume knob is maxed out if you zoom in on the picture.

Image

And here's a picture from 1998. Notice how the volume knob on the DC-10 is still maxed out.

Image

Here's a picture of his newer rig. It seems that he now uses a DC-20 instead. As you can see the DC-20 output goes into the DOD input, just like it would in 1985. I don't know whether or not the DC-20 has the same preamp as the DC-10. Notice how he uses the high output setting on the DC-20. He also uses the mic input instead of the instrument input. We can also assume that he still has the volume knob on the DC-20 maxed out considering that he maxed out the volume on the DC-10.

Image

In conclusion, it seems that Yngwie always pre-boosted his pickups before kicking in the DOD. The true magic seemingly lies in the DC-10 boosting and shaping the tone of his pickups (FS-1 or HS-3) before being tightened up and further shaped and boosted by the grey DOD (gain at max and level at 9 o'clock cuts a lot of bass and gives a cutting yet warm attack, especially in conjunction with celluloid picks and disconnected tone pots). The CE-1 would then either be somewhere before or after the DOD and/or the DC-10 working its magic on his tone (boosting it even further, thickening and widening it slightly, adding more tight, low end thump and removing some piercing high end). IMHO, the DOD/DC-10/CE-1 combo was the secret force behind his Alcatrazz Metallic Live '84 tone with the CE-1 being the icing on the cake.

But we still need to know his exact pedal placements, his CE-1 level control setting and his amp EQ settings (amp EQ shouldn't be too hard to figure out) in order to replicate his original overdrive sound.
  • Fender celluloid extra heavy picks (Shell or black, rarely white.) ->
  • DiMarzio HS-3 or FS-1 pickups (HS-3s close to the strings for most response, but with disconnected tone pots on both HS-3 and FS-1. Middle pickup lowered to pickguard for less string pull.) ->
  • Roland DC-10 (Volume input gain maxed out, level at -20dB, low output setting.) ->
  • Analog Man/Grey DOD 250 (Gain maxed out with level at 9 o'clock.) ->
  • Boss CE-1 (Level control probably on 5-7, high input setting.) ->
  • Marshall 1987x (Upper left input, no channel bridging/jumping/jumpering, EL34 or KT77 tubes, volume on 10, EQ varies, might run 2 heads with opposite bass/mid/treble EQ.) ->
  • Celestion G12-65 speakers (Darker sounding speakers.)
Last edited by wildtigerjungleman on Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
yngwie308
Senior Member
Posts: 4623
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 11:21 pm
Location: Valhalla, Arizona

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by yngwie308 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:27 pm

Great stuff guys truly insightful research.
I knew there was some boosting gain wise but relative clean with clear note and chord articulation.
These days Yngwie's set up has loads of gain yet way too much compression for my taste.
Fascinating stuff!! :champ: :rock:
yngwie308
http://www.vintagewashburn.com/Electric ... evens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.treblebooster.net/bolin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

awangotango
Senior Member
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:17 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by awangotango » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:40 am

I just got one of those old dimarzio stacked singlecoils he used and am building an alder strat around them! I'll be plugging it straight into a 50w plexi though. no pedals. I love his rhythm tone on steeler and the first half dozen albums. After that I lost interest. Too many notes for me. His rhythm playing could have been so much more a part of his style but he chose the single not path exclusively

this is what i will be emulating
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8k8US3 ... sXAVBBH-P-

Blix
Senior Member
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:42 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by Blix » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:35 am

Yeah really cool stuff WTJM. I will specualte that the DC-10 doesn't really add that much gain though. With the cranked Marshalls and pretty much cranked DOD 250 you have a good bit of gain going already.
The old EP-3 Echoplexes doesn't really add much gain to speak of, but a very pleasant tone shift.

wildtigerjungleman
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:46 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by wildtigerjungleman » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:31 am

yngwie308 wrote:These days Yngwie's set up has loads of gain yet way too much compression for my taste.
His modern tone can be attributed to the following changes:
  • Fender celluloid extra heavy picks -> Dunlop delrin 1.5 mm picks
  • DOD 250 (Gain maxed out with level at 9 o'clock.) -> DOD YJM308 (Gain and level maxed out.)
  • Roland DC-10 (Volume input gain maxed out, level at -20dB, low output setting.) -> Roland DC-20 (Volume input gain maxed out, level at -20dB, high output setting.)
  • Celestion G12-65/G12H speakers -> Celestion G12T-75 speakers
The delrin picks have a much rounder and weaker attack, but they can be easier to play with since they're very smooth. The DOD YJM308 has a lot of bass cut compared to a DOD 250 so he maxes out the level on it to compensate. Then he uses the high output setting on a DC-20 instead of the low output setting on a DC-10. New (old ones are better) G12T-75 speakers are very compressed and scooped sounding speakers. And these days he has even more gain than before due to using the higher output Seymour Duncan pickups.

Regarding his earlier tone, I was thinking, maybe you could emulate the DC-10 and CE-1 by using 2 good EQ pedals with adjustable level controls on them. You could boost the levels slightly and then adjust the CE-1 replacement to add some low mids and cut some high end.

Here's what someone said regarding the tonality of the CE-1:
javajunkie wrote:The CE-1 decreases the highs (3db/octave roll off at ~1k) and boosts the low mids a bit. Its input is very sensitive and clips very easily. This non-optimal SNR also make for a noisy pedal.
BTW: The true magic of the CE-1 lies in its low impedance, the high/low input setting and the level control working together synergistically. By modding and/or cloning the pedal to make it more suitable for guitars you actually end up killing off the magic it delivers when stock, at least the magic it delivers when used as a preamp. That's why you shouldn't change the impedance or make it true bypass when modding/cloning it.

Edit:
wildtigerjungleman wrote:
  • Roland DC-10 (Volume input gain maxed out, level at -20dB, low output setting.) -> Roland DC-20 (Volume input gain maxed out, level at -20dB, high output setting.)
It seems that the level is automatically set to -50dB when using the mic input on the DC-20. The level setting apparently only applies to the 2nd channel, i.e., the mic/instrument input. So it should be:
  • Roland DC-10 (Volume input gain maxed out, level at -20dB, low output setting.) -> Roland DC-20 (Volume input gain maxed out, level at -50dB, high output setting.)

chrisb
New Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:03 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by chrisb » Sun May 10, 2015 9:59 am

Great thread. I have always loved the sound he got on the two early live videos 84 and 85 and I know common thought is he had moved to the hs3 by then but I am not so sure. I am ready to be told I am wrong :) but I am starting to think at least the duck didn't get the hs3's for longer than thought. Firstly because I have both pickups and after swapping them back and forth for ages I think the FS1 just sounds closer in attack and clarity to the early sound and also is just a little less stringy sounding.
Also, he recorded No Parole, went on tour then recorded Rising Force... would he really change the pickups in all his guitars at once.

Here is a grab from Alcatrazz 84. Note first the pickup height and how far the pole pieces protrude (e and b look flush)
Image

Here is another from Rising Force 85 - same as above
Image

and last from the REH Hotlicks vid in 88 - different covers, much lower and the poles sit higher just like an HS3 in vintage style covers
Image

Or again I could be completely wrong. :what:
Last edited by chrisb on Sun May 22, 2016 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Blix
Senior Member
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:42 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by Blix » Tue May 12, 2015 6:47 pm

Oh hey. Well spotted Chris. FS1 seems very plausible for longer than we thought!

awangotango
Senior Member
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:17 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by awangotango » Wed May 13, 2015 12:33 am

this is the pinnacle of yingvay's tone imo. HS3 through metal panel. Outrageous tone. Crank it up!

note: steps for downloading

1) UNcheck the box 'use our download manager'.
2) Save it directly by hitting Download (not 'download now')

http://www.datafilehost.com/d/d8a12079
http://www.datafilehost.com/d/d0a491c8

User avatar
JimiJames
Senior Member
Posts: 3541
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:32 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by JimiJames » Wed May 13, 2015 12:16 pm

pinnacle ? :shrug: not a chance in convincing me... Some great playing though.
Besides, that just might be D- YJM's voiced a little diff from the HS3's.
FWIW It's officially pronounced 'Yingvee' :lol:

1983 - rockstah & I went to go see Billy Sheehan & TALAS for a night out from schoolin'. Surprisingly YJM was in town shopping for his band after the Mike Varney Shrapnel Records sign with STEELER. Standing at the bar ordering a R&C a "new fan" also recognized him and greeted him with a "Hello. Are you Yingvee Malmsteen ?" and proceeded to introduced himself. :palm: :lol:
After hearing that, we both duct out grabbing a back row table to watch the show & so that we could hear the entire band & their tones. Well, YJM thought the same and took up a seat at a table right next to ours. Mark was sitting closest next to YJM. I didn't hear what they were commenting about, but it was time for another drink. So, I got up without saying anything and brought back a round. Without saying anything and in stride I place a R&C infront of Yngwie, went to the next table by Mark , sat down after making eye contact, and said "Yngwie, We'd like to thank you for what you do. Keep up the good work!" His immediate and genuine response was "Thanks a lot "! Eyebrows raised & held the glass up to us making a toast gesture. We left him alone to enjoy the performance, and oddly enough sat by himself for most of the show. The rest is in the books.

FWIW Mark had Alcatraz's NPFRR note for note. A true Monster. (Something YJM said definitely influenced Mark's view)
RIP Mark Abrahamian-rockstah -classmate/roommate
RIP Ben Wise -StuntDouble- comrade-in-arms

__________________________________________
Build'sClip'sVid's

awangotango
Senior Member
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:17 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: YNGWIE MALMSTEEN

Post by awangotango » Wed May 13, 2015 7:55 pm

for those who do dig his old rhythm tone, let me bolster and flesh out my case by saying that to my ears, it sounds like big heavy chain link slave chains being rapped on the bottom of a white oak viking ship. Metal on wood. Super heavy tone imo and to my sensibilities, that mid 80's tone he had on rhythm (see clips) sounds amazing in front of a halfstack. It's got what I call, 'midrange clang'. Clear but gainy with a touch of low mid kick. That is what yngwies best old rhythm tones sound like to me....an attenuator might make this tone harder to get imo and recommend for anyone who does want to get it, go straight into a 2 stage plexi and a pedal for his leads to get more metallic sustain. I recently put an old hs3 into swamp ash tele with a gibson wraparound tail piece. frickin love it! vintage M's and old glass. perfect blend of sour and sweet. He had a great ear for tone back then and a vibrato which is world class

Post Reply