Can someone answer some questions about Jimi's gear for me?

JamesHealey · Post by **JamesHealey** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:37 am

What Marshalls did Jimi use?

the '66 w/KT66 I know he used but did he use the later 67 w/EL34s?
if so when did he use them? and what tracks have which amp on etc?

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:29 am

I think the first 2 Experience albums featured the earlier 66-67 type 100 watt top sound (larger Drake transformers,kt-66,etc) I hear more high end chime, but less 'grunt'. Hedrix used stock germanium transistor Fuzz Faces on the first album, but on the second one,he used modded fuzz faces tweaked by Roger Mayer.

Upon arrival back in the states, Hendrix probably brought back a few 'new' marshalls (probably 12 series type). Boots from this era spring '68, like the Jim Morrison jam, show a very 'middy' type saturation (el-34 ?) 'ELECTRIC LADYLAND' has marshall AND 4/10 Bassman tones. On the '68 tour Hendrix was definaty using Low wattage speakers,etc.

Starting in early '69 Hendrix got a bit closer to his tone 'vision' by having 6550 out put tubes put in his 'new' Marshalls, as well as higher wattage speakers in his cabs. I think this was an attempt to get a bit more of a Fender type clean, as the result of this change gave more headroom,and clarity. His '68 tour tones, ala "Winter Land", had almost no clean 'spank' at all. (like at the beggining of 'Killing Floor' it wouldnt clean up much on the volume pot of hs guitar) This,imo, was due to his 'overpowering' of his el-34's, and low watt speakers. Hendrix craved the cleaner, quick transient attack of his Fenders, but also wanted the volume and Balls of his Marshalls.

The 6550 tube was a key component to Hendrixs 69-70 sound. His fuzz boxs played a bit more of a role in his sound at this point, cause before (el-34, low wattage speakers) he got at least 60 to 70 % of his distorted tone from output tube satuation (el-34's saturate at lower volumes, 25 watt speakers distort easily), so, his fuzz was kinda 'overkill'. BUT, the 6550, is a very clean, hi-fi sound in comparison, as well a 75 watt speakers. Hendrix had to rely more on his Fuzz for his distotion now. His fuzz faces in '69 were still sounding good (some were of the Mayer 'modded' type), but his use of those unmatched, hi gain sillicon transistored Fuzz Faces in '70 were,imo, a detrement to his tone.

908ssp · Post by **908ssp** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:23 am

You have proof?

carlygtr56 · Post by **carlygtr56** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:06 pm

908ssp wrote:You have proof?

+1
All speculation. reads like a personal fairy tale with no basis in fact or reality

Nothing ever documented and I doubt the GP article as well. The same guy who said he put 6550's in also claimed one fret on Jimi's guitar was filed so he could sustain the opening note in Foxy Lady. I remember that article well and discounted it as BS back then.

He was using RM stuff from the outset.
Axis is documented as Sound City amps were used at least on some of the tracks, which is why that album's clean tones sound like nothing else.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:28 pm

Nobody will ever have all of the specifics down, but I feel alot of his (Jimi's) gear choice has been concluded, not so much by material proof,but by sonic proof. For example, alot of people can tell if a germanium fuzz is being used or sillicon, or, is that 6550 in that tone or el-34. When a Marshall amp is being played loud (like Jimi used them) it is very obvious as to what output tubes he was running. I guess you can 'feel' the truth without 'knowing' it, cause no, I've never seen documented photo's of the back of Jimi's amps taken before known gigs, but, I am opinionated and am confident of my beliefs.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:53 pm

I agree with Tone Slinger. As far as the 6550 thing - its still truly a mystery to me until I can do my own comparisons. Other than that I think most of everything he said is pretty accurate.

I think the hardest ingredient to use when doing comparisons is sheer volume. All gear plays quite a bit differently at stage settings.

Its too bad we all live far away, because there should be an official Hendrix Tone Hunting day where we all come with some killer gear, in a place where we can get loud and document every combination. It'd be BEAUTIFUL

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:16 pm

By the way I really wouldnt go arguing about what hendrix used on studio albums. Ive recorded so much and theres 10 million aspects to tone that can put your sound over the top or leave something to be desired just by mic placement, type of mic, tweaks on the board, ANYTHING. The reason the BOG always gets me though is because its a live album that cant be tweaked all too much, and Ive heard the clips that are straight without any mixing done and that tone is still there, unlike other live situations and albums, indoors or out.

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:05 pm

I just read on the news stand the Guitar Player Play Like Jimi Hendrix
issue and they dragged up the same BS story from the '75 GP issue with the guy from West Coast Organ Company, "We supplied eight heads and cabs, ect. We added 6550's and rebiased, took out the 25W Celestions, as Jimi wanted some heavier speakers. We put in 75 watt speakers, the same ones in the Vox Super Beatles, blah, blah, woof, woof.

I dare anyone to come up with definitive proof that Jimi Hendrix ever:
1. Used a Marshall Super Bass head
2.Used 6550 output valves
3.used any other speakers than 25W and 30H Celestions, besides the Fenders and Sunn's that is.
The truth is out there..why so serious?
yngwie308 (old school, show me the money)

carlygtr56 · Post by **carlygtr56** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:49 pm

I wouldnt go arguing about what he used live either. IMO, all speculation. No proof at all, as if a 6550 tube is gonna get you the sound.

Maybe setting up your gear in the Fillmore East might get closer, cause the acoustics in that place made for a bunch of steller Live albums, Hendrix and everybody else.

I got all 4 BOG shows. All the available rehearsals and the MSG gig.
Some of the board recordings and audience recordings DO NOT sound like the original live album mix. Some are pretty raw sounding.
The MSG, pretty damn deep sounding like some of the Fillmore stuff.

I hate to sound like an old bitch, but the key to this shit isnt any tube or fuzz box. Its learning the stuff and presenting it well.

I gave up trying to get that Who Knows BOG clean/dirty tone. Its not to be had.

Back then, it wasnt like it is now. Their primary concern was keeping the stuff WORKING. I really doubt Hendrix was requesting specific tubes and such.

It's amazing how that GP article is quoted constantly, yet nothing that guy claimed was ever documented.

What was documented, was that sometime in '68, after a tour, his amps were in shambles and brought to Tony Frank of Merson, who tuned them up, and supposable boosted the power.

HARLEYIII · Post by **HARLEYIII** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:54 pm

If we all knew the answers, and could all have those tones nailed, It wouldnt be any fun anymore. some things are best kept a mystery.

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:09 am

Or their wouldn't be a Van Halen section either..

yngwie308

HARLEYIII · Post by **HARLEYIII** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:14 am

yngwie308 wrote:Or their wouldn't be a Van Halen section either..
yngwie308

True. I wont lie though...I was never all that much into his tone, but after coming here, It made me start listening a bit deeper to him. Ive even tried to see how close I can get to it with my toys

It kinda draws you in.

JamesHealey · Post by **JamesHealey** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:08 am

cheers guys informative but confusing none the less, but what else was I expecting?

EL34 are the choice for me always have been but it's interesting to hear the options I've tried 6L6, KT66, KT88, 6550, 5881, EL84 in an ontourage of amplifers.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:52 pm

I dont think tube selection alone is going to make or break anything. Listen to my clips. You can hear the 6550 vs EL34. Clearly theres a difference but its not huge. I throw them back and foirth in the amp all the time and the one conclusion Ive come up with is that I definitely like 6550s better for BoG or with strats period. And I dont like them as much for LPs.

As for BoG. Im convinced tahts all about the room.

908ssp · Post by **908ssp** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:22 pm

You know not even all 6550s are alike. I have a set labeled Amperex with metal bases and 6550 and those sound fat with loads of mid range they have a really uncanny knack for making an amp sound like it has more gain which is silly because gain doesn't come from the power tubes but these things seem to suck the tone right out of the guitar. Very strange tube. The only tube that picks up the clicking from my strap locks.

Point is tubes don't all sound a like, then telling which tube is in something from a live recording is going to be pretty darn hard.