Why Does The Fralin Woodstock Bridge Pup Run at 6.8k?

[Brandon]

I was comparing the CS '69 pups to the Fralin Woodstocks, and I found that all the CS 69 pups (bridge, middle and neck) run at 5.8k... but the Fralins run at 6k on the neck and middle and 6.8k on the bridge!

I've always had problems with the bridge pickup on my guitar, but I previously thought it was because the neck and body were the culprits - very harsh, shrill, loud, twangy sound. Not desirable - but now I think I'm realizing it might also have to do with the bridge pup itself.

Is there anyway I can DIY it and lower the output on the bridge? What instrument do I use to measure the output?

[Xplorer]

well, you're right, it can depend a lot of the guitar itself. i have some low inductance pickups, and also some hot pickups, but i'm allways satisfied. Try some other strings perhaps, ( i love my fender light strings, pure nickel, also some daddario strings, even some ernie ball, when i do a custom setup ) , deal with the neck pickup height, try some other bridges, some other nuts, and try the excellent Suhr V60 lp, also the slider's pickups , a set of 59 would do a perfect job for your quest, excellent pickups, pure clones, made the way it was at this time, often with some wire from this time ( but much more expensive ) .
i'm not a big fan of the 69 pickups. i have some excellent clones, better than fralyn and fender 69 pickups, but it feels like there's something missing, as you say. really try the V60lp, a synthesis of the best pickups of the 60', from the collection of guitars of michael landau if i remember well. sounds very hendrix, very strat. and they are the evolution of the custom pickups made by john suhr for jeff beck. that's what he told me, and indeed, it's great for jeff beck tones as well.
i even suppose that jimi changed his black and white strats with some earlier pickups, no poof of hat, no proof as well that he kept these stock, right ?

V60LP RWRP

[Brandon]

Yeah I've pretty much narrowed it down to the neck and bridge pickup. I've changed out the body, change out the bridge, changed out the pups etc etc. There is almost NOTHING original about this guitar!!

I'll take a look at the pups you recomended, but I'm also attracted to the CS 69s. I played on a 69 CS strat a little while ago and the bridge selection was flawless.

Also, that Fralin "bass plate" is attached to my bridge pup, do you think that's giving it even more juice??

[Xplorer]

sorry, i don't understand what you mean with bass plate attached to he bridge pickup.

a selection of the neck and the bridge pickups will give you a twangy telecaster sound ( gilmour mod with a switch, also to have every pups at the same time, seven positions )

V60lp , or even more , slider's 59

[basile865]

Hey man, I think the baseplate does actually add some juice to the bridge pickup. But I think in truth the lower the output of the pickup, the thinner and brighter its going to sound. Now on the other hand you could have identical outputs but one made with cheap materials and the other with better materials and that will make a difference.

I've got the CS 69's in my strat and I've found that all 5 positions are now musical and not offensive. Some of the old school style strats aren't wired to have the tone knob work on the bridge pickup. My american standard allows me to use the tone knob on the bridge so if I really need to roll off some of the highs I can do that. Thats an easy change if you need to do that.

If you're considering the 69's I recommend them for a quality "stratty" sound. They cover a lot of ground tonally. Funny enough I've been getting more into jazz sounds so I'm probably going to put in a new set that are hotter. The hotter you run the less highs you get and more bass and mids you get, but as you get hotter you'll lose the quacky 2 and 4 position strat sounds. I never really use those so I'm not worried about that.

As far as DIY for your pickup you MAYBE could but that would probably involve too much work and you have to re pot it in wax after any mod is done etc. If those are the stock pickups in the 70's strat don't waste your time trying to mod those pickups - just put in an upgraded set all together. I like the 69's for the stratty sound and playing with different volumes and tone knob settings you can get lots of different sounds. Depends what your goal is.

[Xplorer]

i don't understand why you say that you loose the quacky sounds from the positions 2 and 4, with hotter pickups, as well as loosing highs. at least in my case, not at all. for example, the noiseless fender jeff beck pickups are very hot, but it doesn't necessarly affect the highs loss, or the quacky tones , IMHO. just hotter , more GAIN .

the inductance will depend. you have to look at the henrys.

different wire thickness , different number of tours, different type of magnets ... 6,8 k or 5,8 k won't tell you much

interesting , with some 1956 copper wire : not as linear as today's wire :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sliders-57-Replique ... 3a6171af61" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

these are some of the pickups you'd need, less expensive :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sliders-Vintage-59- ... 3a614d9f00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but if you're want to cover more hendrix tones, the v60lp can be a better choice. i've got two identical early 1991 jeff beck strats :

one with the 59 pickups, one with the v60lp : there's a big tonal difference between these. not hot, but warmer.

[basile865]

I'm not saying you lose the quack entirely, but the effect of that sound is definitely less pronounced when you get a hotter pickup. If you listen to a low output pickup they have more of that fender spanky clean - all those "stratty" or quacky sounds are very pronounced. A low output pickup in a strat through a fender twin reverb is "the" fender sound. Crystal clean, kind of bright sound. The hotter the pickup the warmer it gets making the highs less prominent.

I'm sure the magnet material and wire wrap material will effect the voicing of the pickup but I think its still a general rule of thumb that the lower output pickups are brighter/cleaner and the higher output pickups are warmer with more bass and mids.

[VintageCharlie]

I agree with Basile, but i also think it might be worth for you to get a bridge pup which is on the hot side - it just tames the highs and the bridge position should get fatter. Though strats are not all too well known for a fat bridge The plate under bridge might give you the opposite of what you are after. And yes, it will affect the in-between tone of bridge-mid - you might loose some of the chime, quack or sparkle (at least the part of it that resides in the top end), but i think it's a sacrifice worth trying out.

Good luck and kind regards,

VintageCharlie

[yladrd61]

Yeah I've pretty much narrowed it down to the neck and bridge pickup. I've changed out the body, change out the bridge, changed out the pups etc etc. There is almost NOTHING original about this guitar!!

I'll take a look at the pups you recomended, but I'm also attracted to the CS 69s. I played on a 69 CS strat a little while ago and the bridge selection was flawless.

Also, that Fralin "bass plate" is attached to my bridge pup, do you think that's giving it even more juice??

I put those baseplates on my Duncan SSl-1 s and all it did was feed back especially if I turned the fuzz face on which made it unplayable so I took them off !!! Now I have the Duncan SSL-1s {6.2K,6.5K9Rw,RP) ,7K bridge} . in there with a treble bleed kit. I also hooked up the bridge p/u to one tone control with a .1uf cap, and the mid neck to the other, with a .047. Now it nails the sound of the '68 Black Strat especially on the bridge p/u . Also try to get yourself a good fuzz face

[100JH]

New to the forum (first post) but saw this and thought I would chip in my two cents. If you get a chance check out the Sliders Vintage 69's. I looked high and low to find what would work best for my ears. After about a year of looking and trying different pups out, I ordered a custom set for my Woodstock strat (full pickguard build and all) and through the SLP100JH it sounds like heaven.

http://www.stratoblogster.com/2009/08/s ... tocks.html

Definitely gets those Axis and later tones. I use the Woodstock strat for Axis and later tones (Eb) and a black EJ strat for Are You Experienced (E) tunes. The Woodstock pups are a bit brighter and the EJ's are a bit darker. Just my opinion...give 'em a shot. Rod does great work, builds and wires everything by hand and does extensive research. I got mine done with the 72 dark burgundy wire (looks pink). Great guy to work with and highly recommended. He took the time to answer every anal question I had. His pups are around 5.5k to 5.7k and around 2.3 henries.

The strat in the picture is solid one piece alder Olympic White with a very light nitro coat, Sliders pickguard (voodoo style, specs too detailed for this post), Callaham bridge, 5A flame maple neck with big head and black mother of pearl inlays, the 68 diamond schaller "F" Fender tuners and a detailed etching of Hendrix's face on the neck plate (en homage), all with a very slight relic.

The rest of the rig includes a Cats Eye Mista Fuzz (matched germanium 128's), RM Axis and Octavia (RM mods), MJM Mini-Vibe, Area 51 wah (loaded) and a EHX DEM (Howard Davis mods), also a TS808 (Keeley mods) thrown on there for the SRV stuff. I also got a Prescription Electronics Experience en route.

Again just my opinion and two cents...

[yladrd61]

New to the forum (first post) but saw this and thought I would chip in my two cents. If you get a chance check out the Sliders Vintage 69's. I looked high and low to find what would work best for my ears. After about a year of looking and trying different pups out, I ordered a custom set for my Woodstock strat (full pickguard build and all) and through the SLP100JH it sounds like heaven.

http://www.stratoblogster.com/2009/08/s ... tocks.html

Definitely gets those Axis and later tones. I use the Woodstock strat for Axis and later tones (Eb) and a black EJ strat for Are You Experienced (E) tunes. The Woodstock pups are a bit brighter and the EJ's are a bit darker. Just my opinion...give 'em a shot. Rod does great work, builds and wires everything by hand and does extensive research. I got mine done with the 72 dark burgundy wire (looks pink). Great guy to work with and highly recommended. He took the time to answer every anal question I had. His pups are around 5.5k to 5.7k and around 2.3 henries.

The strat in the picture is solid one piece alder Olympic White with a very light nitro coat, Sliders pickguard (voodoo style, specs too detailed for this post), Callaham bridge, 5A flame maple neck with big head and black mother of pearl inlays, the 68 diamond schaller "F" Fender tuners and a detailed etching of Hendrix's face on the neck plate (en homage), all with a very slight relic.

The rest of the rig includes a Cats Eye Mista Fuzz (matched germanium 128's), RM Axis and Octavia (RM mods), MJM Mini-Vibe, Area 51 wah (loaded) and a EHX DEM (Howard Davis mods), also a TS808 (Keeley mods) thrown on there for the SRV stuff. I also got a Prescription Electronics Experience en route.

Again just my opinion and two cents...

Nice Rig

[Brandon]

Slider's huh?

I checked out that link and well, they definitely have me sold when they say "bell like smoothness" instead "ice pick harshness". That ice pick harshness is exactly what I'm trying to get away from!

Would you agree?

[Xplorer]

totaly with the slider's 59. 69 are icy but nice anyway.
get some 59 to have an idea ... i don't think you would regret.

[100JH]

Slider's huh?

I checked out that link and well, they definitely have me sold when they say "bell like smoothness" instead "ice pick harshness". That ice pick harshness is exactly what I'm trying to get away from!

Would you agree?

I would not describe them as ice pick-y at all but they are loud and have more treble than the EJ pups. Through the SLP 100JH it sounds great. One reason for this is that the 100JH is a bit bass-y and deep and so the two work well together. I tweak the amp when I switch between the EJ strat and the Woodstock strat with the Slider 69's. I also play the amp at 7 -10 on the volume and use a Roger Mayer Axis with the woodstock/sliders. It is damn LOUD. But to me that is the only way to play Jimi. I dont get this whole thing when people try to play Jimi on a Fender or anything but a really good Marshall 50W or 100W dimed - but thats me. After two or three hours my body core feels like jello because of the volume.

I don't know about the 59's (yet, I will be ordering some soon) per Xplorers comment. I am getting Sliders 59's Alnico 5's and the fully loaded pickguard to replace the Fender SRV pups. His 59's sound amazing (via YT and other internet resources). Slider also makes a set of 59's with Alnico 3's which gets that SRV Riviera Paradise type of tone (Red Lenny strat?).

** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uob4cHUTQuA
** this is through a Fender Deluxe Reverb. Tommy Katona on YT has some great examples of Sliders pups. Tommy plays a ton of SRV, so his demos are a bit slanted towards that type of playing, but he does some Jimi riffs as well. You can get a good idea of how these sound though.

Again, Slider is great to deal with...There was a guy who had some slider 69's and a 100JH on YT and he took down his vids...He was playing Little Wing and Castles...it sounded great and was the main reason for me to reach out to Rod (Slider). I think the guys name that did the vid was Zack. If you reach out to Rod, tell him David from MD sent ya!

Again just my two cents and opinion...