Metropoulos Forum

Sorry for my poor english.

I'm about to buy a 45/100 replica and a 4 12" speaker cabinet from metroamp but i'm not sure what speakers i should choose.
Unfortunately I do not have the opportunity to try the amp before the purchase.
I've read somewhere that hendrix used G12H 55 hz speakers so i searched on the internet and found that celestion (G12H Heritage), scumback (H55) and ASW (KTS-60) are making reissues or similar speakers. I wonder what is the best choiche among these or whether to opt for G12M 75 Hz or alnico kind of speakers.
I play mostly a '66 strat with rosewood fingerboard and alder body.
I'm looking for a Hendrix bluesy sound (Red House, Voodoo Child slow blues). Or Fresh Cream with a Gibson LP

I thank anyone who wants to give me some suggestions

Scumback is the best for Celestion clones.

For Fresh Cream your best choice is the M75. The Fresh Cream tone is pure 45/100 and G12Ms. If you really want it to be accurate, you could wait for the (probably) upcoming PVC (paper voice coil) types, but that will be some months into the future.

For early Jimi, there's some disagreement whether he typically used M or H type speakers. His first stack (October '66) is early, maybe too early for the H type speakers. However, his seems to be one of the very first with the "100" badge on them, so they may have had G12Hs, again with paper voice coils. I like Hs much better for Jimi tones no matter what. Of the current Scumbacks, I'd go with H75 or H55. The latter is the bass cone, but those early cabs may well have had lead cones, which coupled with the thick pinstripe cloth and large bottom cab would probably sound very big and not necessarily as bright as one might think. Coupled with a rosewood board Strat I think you'd be in heaven!

I like my Silverbells and G12H30 55hz speakers from Weber.
Scumbacks are probably better... never heard those, but also are quite expensive.
I would not recommend Celestion speakers. Maybe the Heritage ones are ok, but for that money... I dunno.
I played through all kind of curent production Celestions and all seem to lack either tone/bass or even both.

With the 45/100 head (70w clean, 110 dimed) you can go with the low power 25/30w speakers unless you do stuff like turning the volume up to 10, then put an OD/Boost unit on it that maxes the OT.

Pretty sure you're going to want either M75 25's or G12M pre rolas for the old Hendrix (pre 68) tones. After early 68 he's using the G12H30's, 75 hz cones first, and after Woodstock/BOG it's the 55hz cones.

I've had clients get the best of both by doing an H55/H75 65w mix with their 69 50w Plexis, 100w would require the 65w models if you're using just one 4x12.

A lot of this is having a stock Strat w/medium output pickups, the Fuzzface, Crybaby and the Univibe, though with a bunch of old style curly cords to connect them. All of that presents a particular load to the amp, I'm sure, considering there is 60ft plus of guitar cords before the amp.

And then you have to put the amp on the Jimi Hendrix setting, which is all the controls on 10.

The Scumback speakers put out some great tone. Check out Austin Speaker Works, great speakers also.
http://www.austinspeakerworks.com/home.php

Thanks for the replies,
I just listened to the sound samples on the Scumback site. They sound amazing
I think that M75 has better cleans, on the other hand H75 and H55 s have a more pronounced low end but i feel like the highs are a bit "dull". So i have not decided yet.
Anyway, i've planned to buy just one cabinet, so, considering that unfortunately i play very loud i think that four 65 watt speakes would be right for me and would not brake so easily even when using a fuzz face at high volumes. Is there a noticeable difference in terms of tone between 25/30 and 65 watt versions of the same speaker? Using a single 4x12 with 65 watt M75 can cause speakers to work not properly at high volumes?

Just another question, I own a slightly modded Twin Reverb for cleans that i will use along with the 45/100, how would you compare the volumes of a 45/100 when set loud to a twin reverb?

Thanks

If you play the 45/100 cranked you'll have no problem using the 65w speakers, the 25/30w will handle it (based on specs I've read/what George told me about the power it puts) fine. There's a tiny bit more bass, tiny bit less treble in the 65w vs the 25/30w models. You can EQ it out without issues.

As for the Twin Reverb, it's a loud CLEAN amp which is bright, but if you get the right speakers for it, you should be able to match it up to your 45/100 at comparable volumes for stage.

Please guys, hat is the best ever reproduction of the Pre Rola G12H30 75 ? is this reproduction spot on, or still some research to do ?

thanks !

Xplorer wrote:Please guys, hat is the best ever reproduction of the Pre Rola G12H30 75 ? is this reproduction spot on, or still some research to do ?

thanks !

the scumback h75 is the best I've heard by far

thank you !
did you compare with some originals ? with a jtm45/100 perhaps ?

Xplorer wrote:thank you !
did you compare with some originals ? with a jtm45/100 perhaps ?

with two JTM45/100s but no original pre rolas unfortunately

I just bought one of the "Hendrix" stacks which has Celestion G12C (actually more of a G12M spec-wise) speakers. I only had the chance for a very brief run-through, but I quite liked what I heard. Kind of a fast, snappy sound, but with some of that typical G12M compression. I am going to do a more thorough test through the weekend, comparing them to a vintage BW cab with G12M 55Hz ones, but I must say I was pleasantly surprised by what I heard. Amp head sounded quite good as well, but not as good as the 45/100 I just finished building... . Photos will come...involving EC pinstripe cloth, block end chassis, Pihers, mustards and GECs....

Jim - do you know if the G12Cs by any chance have paper voice coils? Since they were intended to replicate a 66-67 style G12M, I thought maybe they had gone to that length, though I doubt it. Nevertheless, my immediate impression were that they had a sort of fast, snarly response which I've heard the paper voice coils can impart?

Negative, no paper voice coils in the G12C's. It's another tweaked G12M model, with regular Kapton/Nomex (not sure what they use) 25w coils, different cone/suspension parts. I have a couple here I traded for. Haven't gotten them in a cab yet, but I do have V30's and G12H30's in a JCM 900 with stereo wiring and the black cloth! Will that do?

Seriously, I have to move some speakers around in cabs to figure out where I'm going to put them. I've got some G12M RI's, so the likely candidate will be another slant cab with a stereo switch.

Just to follow this up, this past week I've compared extensively the G12Cs with a set of '70 G12Ms 55Hz. I've had them in and out of different cabs with different grille cloths - a '67 slant with EC Collins pinstripe, the stock Hendrix stack cabs, then those same cabs with EC Collins pinstripe, and also a Jeff Swanson-built tall bottom replica.

The verdict is that these speakers are suprisingly good, very lively, but slightly stiff and also tend to become a little harsh when pushed with a fuzz. I don't know how broken in they are - the stack had been on display in a store for probably quite a long time, so I would expect them to have seen some action. The '70 55Hz ones are definitely darker sounding, not quite as lively on top, but smoother and thicker, particularly with a fuzz. They really give up that thick molasses-like yet sharp and clear tone with a JTM45/100.

What's more surprising (or not) is how much the cab has to say. These cabs should theoretically be the "same", they're all made of 5/8" /15mm 11-layer birch ply shell, baffle board and backs. However, the new Marshall "Hendrix" stack cabs sound a little shriller, thinner, not as lively, resonant and not as deep as either the Swanson cab, or the '67 slant, which was clearly the best sounding out of all of them. The difference isn't *huge*, but it's there. I've dressed the Hendrix cabs up with EC Collins pinstripe and MG repro logos, so they really look the part (photos coming!), and I am going to keep them, but I am looking into what makes them sound not quite as hot as the other cabs. The outer shell and back panel seem just slightly softer and slightly duller sounding when you knock on it, but it's not *that* different. Same thing with the baffle board. However, in typical Marshall fashion, they cut corners where they can...the bracing around the front edge of the baffle is all made of pressboard. Also, the center post and accompanying bracing is not the same as on the vintage cabs - there's less wood, the center post is smaller, and the center post is simply mounted to a pressboard piece and then onto the baffle. I'm wondering if this is where some of the difference lies. Particularly on the slant cab, the interior baffle bracing is just not as solid as on the vintage cab, so I assume it makes for a less rigid baffle, and lesser coupling of the baffle, shell and back panel. I'll probably be looking into that in the future.

shakti, what you posted is a pretty fair assessment from what I know of trying these speakers, plus the cabs.