BOG fuzz question

[Xplorer]

very cool ! thank you !

newmarket is a brand ? sorry i don't know that. is it possible to find such germanium transistor ?

so you confirm that it's a simple standard dallas arbiter circuit with no mod except for a germanium transistor in Q2 ?

interesting, i wonder how this bias is wired on the traces, in the schematic, to control the second stage. ( i don't have so much science indeed, and still ask such questions ) .

so you said that Q1 , a Si TI 2N2907A is just below 200, and Q2 , the newmarket ge is arround 140 ?

really cool, thank you.

[swankmotee]

NICE STASH!

Thank you
Would love to hear clips of “Venus“ [/quote]
They will be forthcoming just as soon as I get them!

[swankmotee]

very cool ! thank you !

newmarket is a brand ? sorry i don't know that. is it possible to find such germanium transistor ?

so you confirm that it's a simple standard dallas arbiter circuit with no mod except for a germanium transistor in Q2 ?

interesting, i wonder how this bias is wired on the traces, in the schematic, to control the second stage. ( i don't have so much science indeed, and still ask such questions ) .

so you said that Q1 , a Si TI 2N2907A is just below 200, and Q2 , the newmarket ge is arround 140 ?

really cool, thank you.

Yes they are totally stock FF circuits with only the addition of the 10K pot for adjusting the bias. Newmarket made tons of different Ge trannies and myself and other have found lots of unmarked versions at hamfests and other electronic parts houses through the years and I always tried to buy them up for use in my evil experiments!LOL! They all usually sound good or very reminiscant of older Ge types like the 275's or AC128 type. There are many other good sounding Ge types as can be seen like Dunlop using the russian type (forgot the #?) in their Joe Bonnamassa FF which sounds really good too. I have always tried to keep an open mind and try anything in these circuits just to see if I stumbled onto something special but I always end up coming back to the same usual suspects. And yes those values for the hybrid are in that range I quoted and work perfectly and get a ton of fuzz and gain!

[Xplorer]

Nice !
i'll try to find an old electronic book where they say everything about the brands, their parts ... so i could perhaps find such newmarket germanium transistor in this range and see if i can find another one that could be also in this range. did you also measure the other specs of this great germanium transistor ?
i've seen a newmarket oc77 on ebay, i could perhaps buy it, but i don't know what it does.


http://cgi.ebay.com/CV7007-OC77-Germani ... 20b806645d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and for the silicon one, i've seen this one , but texas instrument ... ( ? )

http://cgi.ebay.com/2N2907A-TI-1968-GOL ... 56411c7bea" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

is it still BOG if you use a simple well known AC128, in Q2 ?

in the case you have a photo of the traces on Venus .... : )

dunlop joe bonnamassa FF germanium transistor, ok... gonna look.

[Tone seaker]

so I guess back to my question I guess there is no off the shelf fuzz to buy for BOG tone. I don't know about biasing and or building one.

[swankmotee]

so I guess back to my question I guess there is no off the shelf fuzz to buy for BOG tone. I don't know about biasing and or building one.

Just spend some time with the Dunlop JH-1 BC108 versions because they really sound very close to that tone. The one I picked out sounds really Hendrixy and I use it all the time!

[yladrd61]

so I guess back to my question I guess there is no off the shelf fuzz to buy for BOG tone. I don't know about biasing and or building one.

Just spend some time with the Dunlop JH-1 BC108 versions because they really sound very close to that tone. The one I picked out sounds really Hendrixy and I use it all the time!

Yeah I have one of the new Dunlop Jh fuzzes they did a really good job of reverse engineering the real deal. there are also pots on the bottom of the board to adjust the bias on the transistors. I found mine sounds best at 1.3 V on Q1 and 5.2 V on Q2 Q2 was welll over 6V out of the box

[swankmotee]

so I guess back to my question I guess there is no off the shelf fuzz to buy for BOG tone. I don't know about biasing and or building one.

Just spend some time with the Dunlop JH-1 BC108 versions because they really sound very close to that tone. The one I picked out sounds really Hendrixy and I use it all the time!

Yeah I have one of the new Dunlop Jh fuzzes they did a really good job of reverse engineering the real deal. there are also pots on the bottom of the board to adjust the bias on the transistors. I found mine sounds best at 1.3 V on Q1 and 5.2 V on Q2 Q2 was welll over 6V out of the box

Yep! i tweaked mine too and found a much better sweet spot than the factory setting!

[Xplorer]

we want to hear Venus !
is it the arbiter circuit version ISS1 ? just because i wonder where the bias pot is wired, on the traces. not enough knowledge about such thing.
i'm trying to score these transistors, to test it.
did you test another silicon that could do the same result ? and i'd have the same question about this newmarket germanium transistor, in the same hfe range, but with a mark that i could perhaps source. then of course i know, it'd be about testing many different until it's the right one to my ears if i'm lucky.
some months ago i tried to buy such green caps, for an univibe clone. even if they're supposed to be not the best, i wanted the same. but they sell it in very big quantities only.
what other caps are in, and what voltage are they ? i noticed that a very small change could affect the tone a lot, on this part. a 25v or 15v or 50v would sound very different to me. and there's a reactance question or something...
but i see that one is a nichicon 2,2uf 50v. so, i'm just wondering about this blue electrolytic cap in fact.
i'll try with piher resistors, it should probably be ok.
another question : what pot values is it, and which are audio and which are linear please ?

the axis fuzz on the market today imho, is indeed different from the axis fuzz of jimi, for one more reason : having a germanium transistor like this in a big production is a bit complicate to manage, because they could vary from one to another, and he'd have to source them ... and i read this fuzz central article about their axis fuzz : "it has all the warmth of a Germanium Fuzz Face-style circuit, but you don't have to worry about tracking down hard-to-find Germanium transistors that have the right gains and leakages and paying through the nose for them"

http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/axisface.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so i suppose that it's what RM tried to do later.

[Xplorer]

by the way : newmarket produced some OC77, do you think that it could be one of these , in venus ? strange that it's unmarked. and how do you know that it's a newmarket transistor ?
i'm wondering what other transistors they produced.

[swankmotee]

by the way : newmarket produced some OC77, do you think that it could be one of these , in venus ? strange that it's unmarked. and how do you know that it's a newmarket transistor ?
i'm wondering what other transistors they produced.

In all honesty, because of the way it is built looking at the underside it has the same construction as any other Newmarket tranny's but yes it could be made by another company since there were so many manufacturers back then. All I know is it sounds right and gets the same enharmonics like the Hendrix pedals. As far as your questions about the different caps, you just have to experiment with different types and voltages until you get it tweaked to your liking. I wish there were a better answer but that is what I had to do and it took many hours of playing around with these things to get it right. The card is an issue 2 version and everything on it is standard valuse except for the pot. Hope this helps and I'm still waiting on the Dangerousguitar.com folks to send me some video but will post it asap.

[spaceace76]

the axis fuzz on the market today imho, is indeed different from the axis fuzz of jimi, for one more reason : having a germanium transistor like this in a big production is a bit complicate to manage, because they could vary from one to another, and he'd have to source them ... and i read this fuzz central article about their axis fuzz : "it has all the warmth of a Germanium Fuzz Face-style circuit, but you don't have to worry about tracking down hard-to-find Germanium transistors that have the right gains and leakages and paying through the nose for them"

http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/axisface.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so i suppose that it's what RM tried to do later.

well that's sound reasoning but nothing says the original axis fuzz was germanium based. we have no schematics or examples to work that idea from. and besides, jimi used silicon fuzzes too, and RM was probably well aware of the shortcomings of the germanium version. he probably turned jimi on to them for those very reasons of variability in germanium versions. he probably didn't wait until his current production axis fuzz to put that idea into practice

[Xplorer]

yes, we can do only suppositions, and invent the axis fuzz, reasoning and using our ears ( didn't try that hybrid fuzz yet )
one other supposition about the past would be that Jimi at some point may have asked to RM something like : you know Roger, these first fuzz were smoother and todays's fuzz have these advantages, is there a way to mix them together or something ? i'd like that.
discussing with an old amp builder from even earlier, he told me that the artists were asking for some small changes sometimes, with absolutely no clue on how it worked , but they were : yes, this sounds a bit better, and the amp builder : and if i do this ? yes this is it , don't move, that's fine. and the amp builder was just swapping a few resistors on the amp..
about this fuzz, roger maybe didn't go that far, by changing the circuit etc ... just doing the same and changing a transistor at first, on a classic fuzz perhaps, as he was certainly aware that changing Q2 affected the tone of the fuzz.

[Xplorer]

still no clips ?

[swankmotee]

still no clips ?

Yes, I am STILL waiting for the guy from Dangerousguitar.com to send me something. I'm going to be doing the same seminar on Aug 20 @ the Nashville Amp Expo and will get something filmed then as well so at least I'll have some documentation to post after. Sorry for the delay and thanx for your patience!