Hendrix, Speakers and Cabinets

[Cheech]

I am very new to the larger 4x12 cabinets. I have been wanting one for along time. I talked to Ted Webber a long time ago when I built my JTM45 kit. He recommeneded his 2x12 cabinet and the greenback clones he makes. H and M both mixed.

What type of speakers did Hendrix use in his marshall cabs and how were they setup? How were they setup from the factory? Did he modify them? What would the closest to replicate his speaker resistance and wiring setup.

From Scumbacks website the H model sounds the closest. What do you guys think? I would like to aquire a cabinet and as I get the cash buy the speakers individual. However I am not sure what resistance voice coils to buy or the wiring setup he would have used.

Seems like there is a magnitude of information available about amplifiers but not much on speakers and cabinets. Maybe I am not looking in the right spot.

I would like to use this with my JTM45 but I am wanting to build a 100w amplifier he would have used. I cant decided between JTM45/100, JTM100 lately has been seeming nice, or a 69 spec. Later stuff just seems more in your face. I really like the isle of wright sound in perticualr when he does all along the watchtower.

Thanks
Will

[shakti]

I greatly prefer H speakers for Hendrix. He very likely used M speakers on occasion, particularly in the early years, but the Hs give a tighter bass and more cut which is a good thing for Hendrix sounds.

Go with 16 ohm speakers if you're planning a 4x12. I have several old basketweave cabs and the cabs from the recent Marshall Hendrix reissue stacks, including the large bottom cab. The old ones do sound better, but the new ones can get really close with just some small improvements to the interior bracing and sound post. The tall bottom in particular sounds great for Hendrix sounds IMO.

[Roe]

I like g12h 75hz for hendrix. the h55 is too dark and smooth for me but the 1230-55 can be useable imho

[Tone seaker]

There is no way to ever know for sure unless some one with one of his cabs opens it up and tells us which I have never heard off happening. I use G12 M 25 leads and they sound very close. His speakers could have been very new and not broke or they might have been very broke in we will never know for sure

[parkhead]

the g12c is a regular greenback with no dope

I think various greenbacks with no or minimal dope are the correct speaker

p

[Ted B]

the g12c is a regular greenback with no dope

The G12C employs the same cone kit as the alnico blue, which differs from that used in either the G12M or G12M Heritage.

FYI

[Scumback Speakers]

the g12c is a regular greenback with no dope

I think various greenbacks with no or minimal dope are the correct speaker

p

The G12C's I have here use the impregnated doping the Heritage G12M has. You have to look close to see it, as it's thinner.

Back in the 60's all of the G12M/G12H30's had doping you could clearly see, so I'd have to disagree with the idea that the correct speakers to use now are ones with no doping on them....or minimal doping.

[allman]

I greatly prefer H speakers for Hendrix. He very likely used M speakers on occasion, particularly in the early years, but the Hs give a tighter bass and more cut which is a good thing for Hendrix sounds.

Go with 16 ohm speakers if you're planning a 4x12. I have several old basketweave cabs and the cabs from the recent Marshall Hendrix reissue stacks, including the large bottom cab. The old ones do sound better, but the new ones can get really close with just some small improvements to the interior bracing and sound post. The tall bottom in particular sounds great for Hendrix sounds IMO.

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread, but I'm curious about the improvements Shakti is mentioning.
I have the 1960 AHW cabinet, and would obviously like to milk the best possible tone out of it . Shakti, will you chime in with details about improvements that can be made?

[bill bokey]

allman, you'll find all the info you need there :
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35438" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have 2 basketweave cabs, G12M 75Hz slant and G12H 55Hz straight and I find it easier to get Hendrix tones with the G12M. The bass cone G12H are too dark (at least mine are)
I have no Lead cone G12H so I can't compare.

[Tone seaker]

I have a super JH 100 stack with the G12 C's and I also have a 1968 super lead stack. When I A/B the cabs they sound totaly different. The G 12 C's are brighter and louder than my G12M 003 pre rolla speakers

[Ted B]

That's expected, as it seems Marshall is trying to emulate the earliest G12Ms - those that used the 1777 cone kit and pre-date the use of the darker sounding Pulsonic '003', which I believe arrived sometime in '66.

The difference should be similar to that between Celestion's original alnico blue speakers used in AC30s (1777) with the later alnico silvers (003) used for the higher wattage Vox amps. The only functional difference is the cone kit. The silvers were a bit darker sounding and not as 'chimey' as the blues. The switch to the '003' Pulsonic cone kit and better adhesives allowed Celestion to upgrade the power rating from 15w -> 25w. It appears the evolution of the G12M followed a similar course.

[shakti]

I thought the change from a voice coil wound on a paper former to one wound on Kapton (or is it Nomex?) was the major deciding factor to up the power rating?

A friend of mine has a '66 slant cab with original G12M 20-watters, date codes May '66 IRRC. Two of them have H1777 cones and two of them have 102 003 cones. I'll have to check next time if I can hear a difference from speaker to speaker.

[Ted B]

I don't recall all the specific differences, but note that when I refer to the "cone kit", I am referring to the various elements of the kit, not just the cone itself. Several changes were made to improve the thermal durability of the speaker, including the ashesives.

Regarding the VC, a move to a heavier coil form should dampen the sound a bit, all else being equal. I recall one element of modern Celestion alnico blues is the reissue uses a slightly shorter, lighter form, probably to reduce rejects. This does however contribute to the reissue not sounding quite as smooth as the originals. I do not know if this extends to the latter day G12Ms, but I imagine it would.

[Cheech]

So I shouldnt run into any problem with 16ohm speakers. So one cab running would be 16ohms and two cabs connected would be 8 ohms.

Whats the tonal difference if I would use my JTM45 on one cab. I am running 8ohm now. What would 16 do? I hear looser but not sure what it means.

[JimiJames]

Yea, even Celestion I recall somewhere saying that they didn't know either and
designed that particular speaker to what they thought it was. To me that says that Marshall & Celestion
must have been experimenting with a prototype. Yep, just guessin' though...
As mentioned previously, the G12-C's. There in my Jimi bottom and they smoke ! I've gone through the Celestion's of that era, Pre's, BB"s, CB's, [lead cones] with the exception of the 20 watters and 55hz versions, and after hearing them in comparison the G12-C's are my Jimi speaker of choice. Hands down ! (still love my BB's for other !)
Although, Celestion made them exclusively for the Jimi cab, they are available/sold separately as of last year. A couple years back they came in the TV cab(TallVintage) and the MV cab I think. Pretty much a year later after the Super 100 JH came out now available like any other.
I just thought of how sick it would be if I did decide to get a TV cab and trow it on top of my Jimi bottom I'd have a Uber Stack ! Yeaaaaahhh !

Jim will have my future order though. A pair of M75-65's & a pair of H's
First got to get rid of some overstock like my Celestion G12-65's and a Custom Black 2x12 Pinstripe ¼ cab (top half of a "A" cab)