Woodstock Tubes (An Expedition)

[Brandon]

So as many of you know I've been on a quest to find Jimi's "Woodstock" tone.

George built me a Woodstock replica in early 2011, and just recently I finally got a hold of about 7 or 8 different NOS preamp tubes and have been testing, testing, testing....

Suffice to say, I have come closer to the Woodstock tone, but there is still a large gap...

The combo of preamp tubes that seems to come closest to this tone that I have is a mullard in V1 a brimmer in v2 and an unidentified tube in v3 perhaps you can id for me (see photo)



And I have all ri mullards in the power amp section.

The one obvious combination I have not yet tried is all NOS mullards in the preamp section. All NOS mullards in general!

Something I haven't understood about the Hendrix Woodstock tone is WHY is it such a different tone than any of his other performances? I understand that it's outdoors, the univibe is changing the tone, the two amps are changing the impedance, but there seems to be something more to it going on inside of the amp....

The tone has a deep, fat, girth to it while at the same time being very bright, chimey and "clanky". That word "clank". It best describes the uniqueness of the tone to me, as if you're clanking two glass bottles together without them breaking. And there is A LOT of that clank in the tone.

I have never heard the combo, but my gut is starting to say that maybe, just maybe, there were 6550s power tubes with mullards in the pre amp section. What would this combo sound like?

My questions are, can anybody steer me in the right direction with preamp tubes? And what the hell do you think was going on with the amps at woodstock? What type of tone would 6550s with mullards in the preamp give? Would it in fact give something close to the woodstock tone?

Thanks

[axeman]

Ge 12AX7 in the picture. About the tone, are you cranking your amp like he did? My 68 cranked gives me those mids of wood stock.

[Brandon]

Thanks for the tube Id

Most definitely I am cranking the amp

But honestly I can hear that clankiness better when the amps mv is turned down, as the robustness of the lows and mids of the amp on full volume overwhelmes. My amp right now is tending on the warm and smooth side where as I'm trying to get it more chimy, clanky.

It's not as if I'm terribly far away, I am fairly close. But I'm a perfectionist what can I say

But I feel like I'm not getting something

[Xplorer]

i'd suspect the pickups. it made a very big difference from one set to another one, to play some kind of woodstock tones that you're describing. i didn't try the fender CS69, but i'm sure that my slider's 69 reversed are much better. someone even found that it sounded like an octavia when i posted a clip of a fuzz, but this clip doesn't come as close as i can get some other times. and there's this germanium fuzz that really can bite with these pickups... i don't believe in what RM said about the silicon axis fuzz. and why would that be only about the preamp tubes ?
well that's a different approach i had, just my 2 cents.

hey guys, check out this star splanged banner intro from the movie. i don't know when it was made, but it can't be from the live show as you hear, so perhaps jimi made it at another time for this purpose, i just don't know but it's really wicked ! especially when you put it very loud. and the univibe is really 3 dimensional there. one of the best guitar tone i ever heard.
the fuzz is more smooth like my germanium and it can bite at the same time. for your tone quest i'd advise perhaps to put a 100k pot instead of a 500k , on your fuzz, for a slightly brighter tone, and some frequencys better balanced.

[yladrd61]

So as many of you know I've been on a quest to find Jimi's "Woodstock" tone.

George built me a Woodstock replica in early 2011, and just recently I finally got a hold of about 7 or 8 different NOS preamp tubes and have been testing, testing, testing....

Suffice to say, I have come closer to the Woodstock tone, but there is still a large gap...

The combo of preamp tubes that seems to come closest to this tone that I have is a mullard in V1 a brimmer in v2 and an unidentified tube in v3 perhaps you can id for me (see photo)



And I have all ri mullards in the power amp section.

The one obvious combination I have not yet tried is all NOS mullards in the preamp section. All NOS mullards in general!

Something I haven't understood about the Hendrix Woodstock tone is WHY is it such a different tone than any of his other performances? I understand that it's outdoors, the univibe is changing the tone, the two amps are changing the impedance, but there seems to be something more to it going on inside of the amp....

The tone has a deep, fat, girth to it while at the same time being very bright, chimey and "clanky". That word "clank". It best describes the uniqueness of the tone to me, as if you're clanking two glass bottles together without them breaking. And there is A LOT of that clank in the tone.

I have never heard the combo, but my gut is starting to say that maybe, just maybe, there were 6550s power tubes with mullards in the pre amp section. What would this combo sound like?

My questions are, can anybody steer me in the right direction with preamp tubes? And what the hell do you think was going on with the amps at woodstock? What type of tone would 6550s with mullards in the preamp give? Would it in fact give something close to the woodstock tone?

Thanks

The '69 Woodstock amps were the first time he had the modern Split Cathode circuit I think you are very close with your preamp tubes, I have NOS Mullard I63, Brimar CV 4004, Mullard I63 in my preamp, I also have some relabeled Tesla Brown Base EL34s in my power section. I have a very early '70 Metal Panel Super lead, the only difference bet ween my circuit and your s is that I have shared cathode 330uf/820k { Sounds more like Band of Gypsies} and I also have a 2203 style Pre PI Master Volume in addition to the Lar Mar Post PI. The Woodstock amps were definitely EL34s, You need to try to find some NOS Closely Matched EL34s to put in there Mullards and Teslas are going for over $100 ea. I have heard a lot of good things about the East German RFTs I have seen those going for around $50 ea and your Metro is probably well under 500V on the Screens so you should be OK with the RFTs. Those RI Mullards are nothing like an NOS EL34. Also your Amp and speakers will mellow out a lot once they break in more. Also at Woodstock Jimi had a Uni Vibe and Non bypass wah in the circuit which bled off a lot of the high end. You are almost there my friend

[Brandon]

i'd suspect the pickups. it made a very big difference from one set to another one, to play some kind of woodstock tones that you're describing. i didn't try the fender CS69, but i'm sure that my slider's 69 reversed are much better. someone even found that it sounded like an octavia when i posted a clip of a fuzz, but this clip doesn't come as close as i can get some other times. and there's this germanium fuzz that really can bite with these pickups... i don't believe in what RM said about the silicon axis fuzz. and why would that be only about the preamp tubes ?

I agree, most definitely I see the pickups playing a very big role.

Can you get the sliders individual, not in sets?

If not I'll probably have to try a CS69 first.

The '69 Woodstock amps were the first time he had the modern Split Cathode circuit I think you are very close with your preamp tubes, I have NOS Mullard I63, Brimar CV 4004, Mullard I63 in my preamp, I also have some relabeled Tesla Brown Base EL34s in my power section. I have a very early '70 Metal Panel Super lead, the only difference bet ween my circuit and your s is that I have shared cathode 330uf/820k { Sounds more like Band of Gypsies} and I also have a 2203 style Pre PI Master Volume in addition to the Lar Mar Post PI. The Woodstock amps were definitely EL34s, You need to try to find some NOS Closely Matched EL34s to put in there Mullards and Teslas are going for over $100 ea. I have heard a lot of good things about the East German RFTs I have seen those going for around $50 ea and your Metro is probably well under 500V on the Screens so you should be OK with the RFTs. Those RI Mullards are nothing like an NOS EL34. Also your Amp and speakers will mellow out a lot once they break in more. Also at Woodstock Jimi had a Uni Vibe and Non bypass wah in the circuit which bled off a lot of the high end. You are almost there my friend

The probably explains it, the first time he had split cathode...

Yes I've heard good things about the rfts too, tubetramp recommended me those tubes.

Sounds like I'm going to have to get a hold of some old mullards... not going to lie, not excited about the price tag haha :/

I think I'm just going to do the most obvious thing and see if I can fill my amp up with mullards... Perhaps that will indeed get me to where I've wanted to go along.

Thanks!

[Xplorer]

yes, i suppose that rod can build some custom pickups, the one you'd need. i'd say : reversed 69 neck pickup.
yes, the kr fuzz sound nice but you'll have some hard time getting it. building your own and tweak it is the way really. and i'd say germanium or hybrid pnp silicon/germanium , low gain transistors. 100k vol pot. look at the joe bonamassa, it's a good base, a classic base to tweak. these are good transistors.

[Brandon]

yes, i suppose that rod can build some custom pickups, the one you'd need. i'd say : reversed 69 neck pickup.
yes, the kr fuzz sound nice but you'll have some hard time getting it. building your own and tweak it is the way really. and i'd say germanium or hybrid pnp silicon/germanium , low gain transistors. 100k vol pot. look at the joe bonamassa, it's a good base, a classic base to tweak. these are good transistors.

The pickup I would need would be a 68/69 bridge pup ( and it doesn't need to be reversed since I'm a lefty with a flipped over righty gitter )

I currently have a set of fralin Woodstock pups, and I'm pretty satisfied with the neck and middle pups, but the bridge is just... Annoying, that's the right word. Too thin, no mid. It almost sounds like its been mid scooped or something lol and way to ice picky. Could also have something to do with the bass plate on it too. Idk but for some reason it sucks.

Maybe I'll post some clips to give you a idea of the terror lol

[Xplorer]

yes, post some clip ! but try a slider's in the neck too.

http://www.stratoblogster.com/2009/08/s ... tocks.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.myspace.com/slidersvintagepi ... otos/44936" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.myspace.com/slidersvintagepi ... 8654238%7D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[yladrd61]

yes, i suppose that rod can build some custom pickups, the one you'd need. i'd say : reversed 69 neck pickup.
yes, the kr fuzz sound nice but you'll have some hard time getting it. building your own and tweak it is the way really. and i'd say germanium or hybrid pnp silicon/germanium , low gain transistors. 100k vol pot. look at the joe bonamassa, it's a good base, a classic base to tweak. these are good transistors.

The pickup I would need would be a 68/69 bridge pup ( and it doesn't need to be reversed since I'm a lefty with a flipped over righty gitter )

I currently have a set of fralin Woodstock pups, and I'm pretty satisfied with the neck and middle pups, but the bridge is just... Annoying, that's the right word. Too thin, no mid. It almost sounds like its been mid scooped or something lol and way to ice picky. Could also have something to do with the bass plate on it too. Idk but for some reason it sucks.

Maybe I'll post some clips to give you a idea of the terror lol

I put a base plate on my bridge pickup and it went microphonic so I took it off. Also when I was trying to get my 1970 Super Lead sorted out I put it back to stock Split Cathode and I found that my Bridge pickup sounded ice picky just as you describe all the bottom end went away I wnt back to shared cathode and was back You only have to move 1 wire to try it or you can make it switchable. PS: Also I have no Bright Cap either Also I have found the Seymour Duncan SSL1 Vintage Staggered pickup to be one of the best in the bridge

[Xplorer]

oh, you're on split cathode ? oh, right, yladr is so right, use the shared cathode absolutely. you can even add a switch for that
( personaly, if i ever switch it, i put the amp on standbye before it. but i never went back to split cathode )

[Brandon]

So with NOS Mullards, what exactly should I be looking for? Seems like there's a lot of choices out there with different labels, years etc.

Are they mostly they mostly all the same or there significant differences between different mullards?

And how close do Winged Cs come to nos mullards? What are the differences?

[Xplorer]

try some nos siemens preamp tubes and shared cathode.

[yladrd61]

So with NOS Mullards, what exactly should I be looking for? Seems like there's a lot of choices out there with different labels, years etc.

Are they mostly they mostly all the same or there significant differences between different mullards?

And how close do Winged Cs come to nos mullards? What are the differences?

You want closely matched Dual OO getter XF2's which normally sell for $500 to $1,000 for 4. Winged C has recently doubled their prices. and Teslas are going for $400/4. Try to find some RFT's you should be able to get a mint matched set for less than $250/4 your Metro has reasonable Plate and Screen Voltages so you should have no problem running RFT's, they were made in East Germany and most of them were relabeled and sent to the West !!! Remember the Eastern Block countries still ran the Radar in the MiGs on tubes, so their Quality never dropped off they were building tubes with AK47's aimed at them !!!

[yladrd61]

try some nos siemens preamp tubes and shared cathode.

Dude !!! he has Mullards and a Brimar in V2 +1,000 on shared cathode