Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

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Froumy
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Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Froumy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:14 am

I hate pedals. Illogical. I'm coming to grips that I may need 2, if I want to pretend to have a Hendrix sound, based on the BOG posts.

I've stepped on hundreds. Only pedal that has ever floored me, was a DIY red Lamma through my 5E3 . In 30+ years. Stupid good. (and last week heard a Klon centaur that made a sketchy Boogie stand up. Player was a friend/roomy of the Klon guy. He had no idea it was worth anything(one of the first ever made). Guy had a vast stable of amps, but brings his base setup to all new rooms. Picks the right amp after he hears the room. (ditches the klon,in favor of the right amp) I agree with this.)

I know there are hundreds of " recommendations". For the guys that are digging in to the BOG tone. (specifically 6550 style) What do you have? The WC fuzz, i believe had an understandable initial error in the PCB PDF. Is this corrected, or shall I make my own? (enjoyed the one clip, have heard no others).

I'm an amp guy. For you pedal guys. Can you tell me how to properly approach a univibe? I prefer building it, But I'd pick up any unit that has the proper schematic. Pretty sure, pedal madmen know the schematic in their sleep. Please. Post up what you know about the circuit. Welcome any info.

Thnx. Bob

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Xplorer » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:07 am

about the univibe, you'll go the right way if you build a jc maillet , or a forum vibe ( inspired a lot by jc maillet's work ) ,
this way you'll can test two preamp versions, plenty of bulb / cells combos, and have the crucial points tweakable for the best vibe personnality.

for the fuzz, yes, i maybe did something wrong, with wrong components, it doesn't react like it's supposed to and i sent it to Dave, and yes there was a pcb mistake, i should correct it someday. i don't think that the clip is how it'll sound like when it'll be corrected.

you're elitist about pedals, i can understand, but at least for bog, with a 45/100, i like using my Dunlop blue Hendrix fuzz, with an input bias pot i implemented, it works great, using it at full volume and very little or zero fuzz gain. i like these bc108c and the frequencys shape.

you should put your hands at work for a few fuzz variations and experiment, this way you'll have your personal approach and view on the bog fuzz. it's allways interesting.

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Froumy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:20 am

I'll check them out. Thnx.

Not elitist about pedals, though. Always felt weird playing them. Beats me. Plugging straight in always seemed to work. Want to see if I can get over that. Cant think of a better place to start than bog. They are required. Irrational prejudice won't get me anywhere.

I'll check your Dunlop fuzz clip, again.

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Xplorer » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:47 am

i may add that vibes react differently according to the amp you use.

with the superlead i prefer to use the megavibe, and with the 45/100 i prefer to use the Voodoo vibe which is escellent even if it doesn't use cells and bulb like in the tradition.

the volume fuzz ( no gain or very little ) in front of the vibe will make it shine, really. that's the trick to try, especialy for bog.

this doesn't show how good this setup be, maybe recorded poorly ... you have to realise with the amp in front of you, but this clip was made this way.

https://soundcloud.com/xplorer80/141129-new-rising-sun

with the fuzz completely off, you'll instantly notice a difference, the Hendrix difference i'd say. the vibe won't shine as well, and the signal will sound too thin, anemic compared to it.

the theory, that wasn't theory anymore when Dave show his prototype is that there's a clean / third transistor stage high gain possibility.
it's easy to have the on off switch transformed for another function : clean setup but bringing something more than zero fuzz in the chain ( so one would still think that the fuzz is completely off but no ) , pushing the amp preamp a bit and enhancing the vibe. Or when switched : going for a high gain setup.
one could easily get mistaken, thinking : the fuzz is on or off, that's all ... but now where does this difference comes from ?
that's what i think.

the forum vibe, i'd build this one :

http://www.classicamplification.net/fv/ ... mod_00.htm

or this one, vintage ( but at least, put the offset bias mod in it )

http://www.classicamplification.net/fv/ ... int_01.htm

at least you know where you're going with this project, and it'll work Wonder. it's not a neovibe stuff ...

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Tek465b » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:33 am

Xplorer wrote: at least you know where you're going with this project, and it'll work Wonder. it's not a neovibe stuff ...
:shock: :cry:

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Xplorer » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:36 am

:) what ?

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Froumy » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:22 am

It looks like the neovibe is based on the original, no? (thanks for the links, didn't know about them)

From other posts, it looks the original is a signal sucker. I wonder if that has any bearing on the BOG tone? Same with the original 47K input resistor, taming treble. Thinking I should start there, as I may not use it for anything else. Frenchie built one. I'm curious how long it took. Lengthy debug process, if something goes wrong. Like to do it right, but also don't want to have too much time invested.

That dunlop fuzz looks like a good place to start.(cheap). Suppose I could gut it, if need be.

Has Dave sent back the WC fuzz?

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Xplorer » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:39 am

don't worry about the signal sucked, i don't think that Jimi's was modified very much .

the point is that if you're after bog, what will count a lot, before your amp, is the combo : fuzz used with its volume > coming into the univibe preamp > with not so much vibe intensity > what comes out is a lot different from
a strat directly into a vibe, going to an amp. it's more desirable and perfect for the clean bog tones. the signal sounds rich, the trebles are very good, the tone is thick enough, it breaths nicely, the strat plays itself.
i strongly think that Jimi realise this and used it this way. you can actualy hear it, when you're more familiar with this trick.

Now for the clean bog tones without univibe , just put the vibe nitensity to zero but don't turn off the vibe.
the combo and interaction described ( fuzz and vibe preamp ) is a lot responsible for the tone and shades, dynamics for bog.

Now if you cranck the fuzz gain, and use this into a vibe, you won't get there, it'll rather be some Woodstock tones.

the neovibe may be theoricaly right, but since you can't source the original bulb and cells, it's a bit pointless to try to get there, without such mod as the offset bias, and a few others. that's what it is about, with first jc maillet's vibe, and then the forum vibe.
with the forum vibe, it should be actualy easier than with a neovibe, to have a working vibe, i think.

yes, this Dunlop blue fuzz isn't bad at all for this purpose.
no , we didn't have the time yet to continue the wc fuzz. and we don't know if it's responsive to the bog quest, maybe rather for some other Hendrix tones. anyway, we will see.

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Tek465b » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:52 pm

I also think the neovibe is closer to the original(just one resistor change on the lamp driver, and power supply is different), you just need to get the correct LDR, smallbear has some very close to the original.
I agree for the bias offset mod,

I don't have any pcb left over for the WC fuzz, had to use the remaining for a cool arduino project (since i did not have suitable Ge's on hand):).
But with some photo pcb and germanium + a few components, i could make one in an afternoon, working, no bug.

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Froumy » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:14 pm

Thanks for the tips, gents. In reading the JC "mods", it does seem like there are some features to compensate for modern parts. Wasn't aware that the LDR's and lamps were not the same. For me, I think I want the signal suck, for starters, anyway. Offset bias mod seems very helpful, current increase to the lamp, etc....

Didn't realize there were so many vibe posts here on the forum. Apologies. Xplorer, you had hopes of building the JC. Did that happen, or were you happy enough with the others?

As far as the blue fuzz. Is there enough room in there, to add the WC? I'm tempted to start with the red, based on size, if I wind up gutting it.

OK. This might sound silly, but I've never thought about pedals. Do I want silicon or germanium? Only care about BOG. Strong chance these will be permanently loaned to a buddy, after experimenting, based on my irrational prejudice. Tones too good to not give it a shot, though.

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Xplorer » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:25 pm

I have a voodoo vibe, a megavibe, i had a dunlop univibe and a fuller mini dejavibe.
Consider maybe a voodoo vibe, it works wonder with your jtm45.

Since years i was into building a jc maillet vibe but i always ran out of time to start this, but we discussed it extensively, did tests etc ..

A dunlop blue is silicon.
Maybe try this voodoo vibe / dunlop blue combo at first, this is a very good starting point.
and work on the WC ( although it may perhaps not be the one to go for bog ) , experiment ...
Avoid the axis fuzz i think. It's not right for bog.

The bog fuzz is highly discussed, but you can, with some experience, guess and a final approach coming from logics available, come close to it,

The amp settings from dave will work wonder too .
Now the speaker: i personaly go for the original celestions g12h30 75 hz, pulsonic cone.

Try this combo, and from there, you'll have a better perspective.
Or do the long quest from zero, and you might probably end up close to this first combo.

Can't wait to try it with a wc modded superlead ! It'll give me more perspective, but i bet that the peinciples i kept along the way will remain strong anyway.

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Froumy » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:14 pm

Do you mean the Roger Mayer voodoo vibe, or the voodoo (labs) vibe? Mayer unit is a little spendy, would probably have to go the way of the forum vibe, if that's the case.

Dunlop is silicon. What were they in 69/70 ? When you wired the extas in your Blue, did there appear enough room for tinkering on the board? Easy transistor swap? (see considering red for gutting) Aware that BOG may not be the WC, but there is such a change from the clean to crazy gain, that I'd like to start there. And hell. It's not like alot of people have built that pedal, which I sincerely believe was in Jimi's road case. Ohh. And only 1 other person that has sent one back to the designer for a repair in 45 years..... Congrats. That's awesome by both of you! :jimi:

I might be OK with speakers. No originals, but scumback(may require another), and a handful of Alnico. I'm going to bark up the Alnico tree first, based on Dave's recollection of loading cabs with Thomas Organ "60 watt" alnico, and what I have.

As far as Dave's WC spec on the amp. I think there may be some validity there. Heard a youtube vid years ago. Tweed Bassman(AKA Jtm45). But it's not stock(contacted him). He took an amp building course, and they had him up the Filtering to 100Uf. We were all lowering it, years ago, which is why I took notice. He also mis-wired the cathode follower. He couldn't remember if it was another gain stage, or a 1:1 follower on this clip. (and also didn't know the diff, but eventually fixed it) It IS absolutely Dave's filtering. NOT Bassman filtering. Ignore the reverb. The base tone is there. BOG may need it built into a Superlead/SuperBass. I'd take this any day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PaiDuiLzas

Good luck with the amp, and I appreciate your help with the pedal stuff.
Last edited by Froumy on Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Xplorer » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:42 pm

there are different opinions about silicon / germanium for bog.
my guess is that it's silicon, and it's time correct. But Dave also talks about these germaniums used in this particular WC fuzz, and they're sounding silicon, or close to it.

just get the blue, don't build a clone, and don't touch it except for putting an input bias pot, it'll be better. and build a custom one in a direction that you personaly feel right for bog, in the red enclosure, that would be the best. it's a fuzz face, so there's room.

yes i know about that video, but it's normal that it sounds Voodoo child : this Voodoo child version was made on a fender, with a cab with like 10 x 10" speakers or something. reverb added later i think.
with the 45/100 you get it no problem, and a lot more, especialy with the fuzz used Dave's way , seen on all of Jimi's fuzz that arrived at WC. totaly makes sense earwise to me.
then for the crazy fuzz parts, the cool project for bog would be this fuzz switch to be used differently, on a blue fuzz clone with an extra. the footswitch would be for me to go from a clean use of the fuzz ( giving the thickness of Hendrix, and these dynamics and tone ) to the crazy parts , even without the fuzz knob way up : we did an experiment, a demonstration from Dave, about how to get some crazy amount of volume, gain, feedback ... while the fuzz gain knob was at zero. a way to use the outputs of the transistors ... the footswitch in my big fuzz project would be to go from the clean part, to the circuit this way.

100uf, alright. i didn't try on my 45/100 but i love it at 16uf on the preamp.

yes, i meant the Voodoo vibe, not lab. it's Worth it, i keep it, + mine is hand signed my roger in silver ink ;)
the bia control on it helps also to get some very cool shades variations for "who knows", i love it. + the tremolo is great, the controls are just perfect for both.

here another example of this fuzz / Voodoo vibe combo. i like my clean tones with this volume fuzz, makes everything shine better. without it it's missing too much especialy for the Hendrix tones .

https://soundcloud.com/xplorer80/141125 ... c-ladyland

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Froumy » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:42 am

Wow. Quick response. Thnx.

I was mildly confused with your fuzz suggestion. Get the blue, but I thought you mentioned that putting it in the red would be best? Same circuit? I like either cheap option.

Seems I'll need a handful of transistors to choose from.

Are you saying, make the fuzz non bypassed? Use the switch to engage the 3rd transistor? Or am I to control this via volume knob. Sorry for my confusion.


Didn't know that voodoo child was on a Fender. No wonder it's perfect(but with upped filtering).

Yeah. I love low filtering too, but that Bassman in the clip(it isn't a true Bassman) corresponds directly with Dave's recollection of how he did the "Jim Morrison", Jimi shipment. Know you guys have gone class B, but have you upped the filtering? That's why I posted that clip.


Looks like monetary concerns will have me building a forum vibe. One of my buddies is about to get a hell of a gift, when I'm done with this experiment.

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Re: Univibe and Fuzz recommendations

Post by Xplorer » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:08 am

i don't understand what you mean with the red. just buy a Dunlop blue Hendrix fuzz, it's cheap, a cool looking fuzz face.

and if you already have a red fuzz face enclosure, maybe you can put a fuzz project Inside, that's possible.

the non bypassed fuzz is maybe a bit complex for now, you can get there later it's alright.

good luck on your forum vibe ! there should be a forum perhaps. try to source some nice cells model and bulb.
the range and speed of the cells is important. the overal voktage also, ( it can work even better at 24 volts, or even 30 volts ) the bulb ... take your time.

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