I want to talk more 5150 mods (my findings)

[Bradley Walker]

I have modded 6 5150s so far and one 5150 2.

My amps have gotten pretty stellar reviews so far. I had to close my retail store but we were an authorized service center for all the major brands and I had access to all the schematics.

My typical mod package for a 5150 is:

1. Add adjustable bias.
2. Use matched output tubes. I prefer Ruby's and TADs even though I have yet to try very many Russian output tubes (we are a dealer for Ruby and TAD).
3. Tone stack the 12ax7s to (from V1 to the end): EHX, Mullard, Mullard, EHX, JJ or MUllard.
4. Add 10 pf cap to remove hiss
5. R9: piggyback a resistor on top of the 1 meg resistor. I have a peg board and I use clips to find the resistor that gives me the right amount of saturation reduction). I have a board that goes from about 100k to 250K. I use as little reduction as possible. This is one of the main mods to reduce hiss also.
6. 40H Hammond choke- this mod does nothing a room volumes (really) but with two to four 4x12's and the amp set to 8 ohms and loud it is a massive improvement!!!

I also run a 10 band EQ in the loop. THIS SHOULD BE IN THE CIRCUIT!!!! This amp is 50% better with an EQ in the loop... Eq' ing the power amp side of ANY amp is an improvement... I am looking at a way to mount the eq in the amp....

Here is what I found...

First off. If you want to sound like a Boogie, buy a Boogie... I recommend the Triple Rec... The 5150 is a modded Marshall, and the more you jack with the thing the more you realize that... I can add one resistor and nail the "Heading Out to Highway" JMP tone exactly. You can hear the basic tone signature. The Soldano is a modded Marshall also, same as the 5150. The Boogie is different and does not sound like a Marshall to me at all...

1. I do not use the "presence". It is set on zero. There is nothing good coming from this knob. Most of the "fizz" or "brittleness" in this amp comes from the presence. It appears to be a "resonance" for a treble notch that makes the amp sound like crap. If you really bear down and try to capture all the great tones from modded Marshalls in the past, this knob RUINS IT!!!
2. Bottom cabs have way more bottom end than slants, and sound "correct" to my ears... IF YOU PLAY DROP TUNING GET A SLANT!!!
3. Slants has more projection than bottoms, and do not get boomy like bottoms. See #2.
4. People use way too much f@@kin gain... They keep looking for "clarity" while using 14 layers of gain... The EQ in the loop with improve the gain better than more gain... It makes the amp come alive.
5. For reals.... A tube 100 watt amp does not sound worth a shit on one 4x12. The speakers are really overloaded. A 4x12 alone is really best suited to 50 watts or less... I use two and EVH used 4... The 5150 really starts changing character when the speaker load is upped after the bias is set correctly.
6. Once the EQ is the loop the lead channel can get a bassy as you want... JUST BRUTAL!!! WHY NOT JUST HAVE THE AMP SET THIS WAY??? YOU CAN ALWAYS TURN DOWN THE BASS???!!!
7. The "crunch" channel has the correct amount of low end. The lead channel does not have enough... You can always turn the bass down..
8. I use an Alesis picoverb in the loop set to spring reverb. This is the Scorpions, Accept, Gary Moore, Judas Priest, etc etc verb sound...
9. I use the Sheffield in slants and add two V30s with Sheffields crisscrossed to the bottoms.

Mods I would like to pursue:

1. Either eliminate the presence or change the sweep point.
2. I really just want the lead channel to have EXACTLY the same bass as the crunch channel. Not the other way around.
3. Hard wire in a 8-10 band EQ into the effects loop.

[demonufo]

Running the risk of sounding like a miserable git, and probably about to receive a stern telling off for it...

2. Use matched output tubes.
3. Tone stack the 12ax7s to (from V1 to the end): EHX, Mullard, Mullard, EHX, JJ or MUllard.

You call those MODS?????

I also run a 10 band EQ in the loop. THIS SHOULD BE IN THE CIRCUIT!!!! This amp is 50% better with an EQ in the loop... Eq' ing the power amp side of ANY amp is an improvement...

Any amp??????? What a complete load of horseshit! Any power amp needing eq-ing should be better designed to account for any so-called deficiencies. Personally I think all early Marshalls are damned near spot on, and it doesn't take much to tweak to tastes anyway. Myself I prefer to do the tonal tweaking in the NFB line, since I don't require much changes, and I certainly don't believe in adding something as drastic as that in front of the phase inverter.

The 5150 is a modded Marshall, and the more you jack with the thing the more you realize that

[/quote]
Give me the phone number of your dealer. I think I could do with some of the wacked out drugs you seem to be on. Especially with the day I've had.

[Bradley Walker]

I certainly don't believe in adding something as drastic as that in front of the phase inverter.

HUH? That's what I meant, hard wire the EQ to the phase inverter...

Whatever dude, you sound like a genius...

At the risk of sounding like a git, why don't you just eff off...

[jimmy_j]

I have modded 6 5150s so far and one 5150 2.

My amps have gotten pretty stellar reviews so far. I had to close my retail store but we were an authorized service center for all the major brands and I had access to all the schematics.

My typical mod package for a 5150 is:

1. Add adjustable bias.
2. Use matched output tubes. I prefer Ruby's and TADs even though I have yet to try very many Russian output tubes (we are a dealer for Ruby and TAD).
3. Tone stack the 12ax7s to (from V1 to the end): EHX, Mullard, Mullard, EHX, JJ or MUllard.
4. Add 10 pf cap to remove hiss
5. R9: piggyback a resistor on top of the 1 meg resistor. I have a peg board and I use clips to find the resistor that gives me the right amount of saturation reduction). I have a board that goes from about 100k to 250K. I use as little reduction as possible. This is one of the main mods to reduce hiss also.
6. 40H Hammond choke- this mod does nothing a room volumes (really) but with two to four 4x12's and the amp set to 8 ohms and loud it is a massive improvement!!!

I also run a 10 band EQ in the loop. THIS SHOULD BE IN THE CIRCUIT!!!! This amp is 50% better with an EQ in the loop... Eq' ing the power amp side of ANY amp is an improvement... I am looking at a way to mount the eq in the amp....

Here is what I found...

First off. If you want to sound like a Boogie, buy a Boogie... I recommend the Triple Rec... The 5150 is a modded Marshall, and the more you jack with the thing the more you realize that... I can add one resistor and nail the "Heading Out to Highway" JMP tone exactly. You can hear the basic tone signature. The Soldano is a modded Marshall also, same as the 5150. The Boogie is different and does not sound like a Marshall to me at all...

1. I do not use the "presence". It is set on zero. There is nothing good coming from this knob. Most of the "fizz" or "brittleness" in this amp comes from the presence. It appears to be a "resonance" for a treble notch that makes the amp sound like crap. If you really bear down and try to capture all the great tones from modded Marshalls in the past, this knob RUINS IT!!!
2. Bottom cabs have way more bottom end than slants, and sound "correct" to my ears... IF YOU PLAY DROP TUNING GET A SLANT!!!
3. Slants has more projection than bottoms, and do not get boomy like bottoms. See #2.
4. People use way too much f@@kin gain... They keep looking for "clarity" while using 14 layers of gain... The EQ in the loop with improve the gain better than more gain... It makes the amp come alive.
5. For reals.... A tube 100 watt amp does not sound worth a shit on one 4x12. The speakers are really overloaded. A 4x12 alone is really best suited to 50 watts or less... I use two and EVH used 4... The 5150 really starts changing character when the speaker load is upped after the bias is set correctly.
6. Once the EQ is the loop the lead channel can get a bassy as you want... JUST BRUTAL!!! WHY NOT JUST HAVE THE AMP SET THIS WAY??? YOU CAN ALWAYS TURN DOWN THE BASS???!!!
7. The "crunch" channel has the correct amount of low end. The lead channel does not have enough... You can always turn the bass down..
8. I use an Alesis picoverb in the loop set to spring reverb. This is the Scorpions, Accept, Gary Moore, Judas Priest, etc etc verb sound...
9. I use the Sheffield in slants and add two V30s with Sheffields crisscrossed to the bottoms.

Mods I would like to pursue:

1. Either eliminate the presence or change the sweep point.
2. I really just want the lead channel to have EXACTLY the same bass as the crunch channel. Not the other way around.
3. Hard wire in a 8-10 band EQ into the effects loop.

Thanks for sharing Bradley. Which power tubes do you like in the 5150? I know everyone says SED 6L6 but I don't want to spend $150+ on power tubes unless I'm getting NOS.

[joey]

First off all throwing an EQ into the FX loop is not Eq'ing the poweramp really, it is still, and drastically Eq'ing (actively altering the voicing), and processing the Preamp, and any Effects you might have in front of the GEQ in the chain within the loop. I honestly DO NOT believe any amp should have to be overly processed to sound decent. All of this is subjective, but I'm of the school that If it doesnt sound good dry - without being drenched in fx, or overly EQ'd than something is wrong.

Second, If you like the sound of active EQ'ing, the 5150 conveniently uses a VE stage right before the TS, (a remnant of earlier designs) and if you look at any other high gain peavey amp like the Ultra+, XXX, etc... you will see all those models use semi-active EQ, instead of the passive. so if you like it, you can mod the 5150 that way as well.

[demonufo]

I certainly don't believe in adding something as drastic as that in front of the phase inverter.

HUH? That's what I meant, hard wire the EQ to the phase inverter...

My point was, the power amp should require it even less. Any amp requiring something as drastic as that to make it sound good has serious flaws, and in my opinion would be better helped improving the areas which are making it sound bad in the first place.


Still, it remains that stating that ANY amp can be IMPROVED by adding a 10band EQ is just plain ridiculous.

[Bradley Walker]

Second, If you like the sound of active EQ'ing, the 5150 conveniently uses a VE stage right before the TS, (a remnant of earlier designs) and if you look at any other high gain peavey amp like the Ultra+, XXX, etc... you will see all those models use semi-active EQ, instead of the passive. so if you like it, you can mod the 5150 that way as well.

Could you please explain the abbreviations?

I decided that I would most likely re-voice the lead channel to eliminate the need for the EQ in the loop. I have actually done this mod to the 5150 2 to add back the bass that was taken out in that design from the original. If I remember correctly the mod was changing resistor and cap values on the lead channel gain pot... I would have to check my notes.

[Bradley Walker]

Still, it remains that stating that ANY amp can be IMPROVED by adding a 10band EQ is just plain ridiculous.

I guess I should be careful of my wording.

What I meant was that the EQ in the loop can be effectively used to change the sound. Whether an amp "needs" it is another thing...

[psychodave]

Mods 4 and 5 are part of what I posted on Rig-Talk. A little credit or reference would be nice. This is why Mark Cameron wanted me to post the mods...so people couldn't sell the mods or make money off of them and claim them as original...

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic ... =5150+mods" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ezs]

I certainly don't believe in adding something as drastic as that in front of the phase inverter.

HUH? That's what I meant, hard wire the EQ to the phase inverter...

Whatever dude, you sound like a genius...

At the risk of sounding like a git, why don't you just eff off...

Who is this hack? Cameron mods and calls them his? Ban!!!

[uiovbged332]

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