Ed's 1978 touring rig.

[Good Guest]

why the bass all the way up and everything else off?

I might be able to answer that one for you Marco....when you slave the resistor pretty well accepts all frequency's from your output transformer. Remember the celestain speaker rolls off at 5 khz ..now you've got frequency's you've never heard before coming out of your amp....you have to tame them or the sound will be extremely high piercing and maybe even thin and talk about feedback problems and noise... That's why many who have experimented used eq's to roll off the highs.

With the 2nd amp setup like Robin described you pretty well get the warm and creamy of all the highs with that valuable shimmer...then it all ends up eventually being rolled off at the final speaker cab.

This I believe is where all the power soaks and attenuaters etc. fail in the EVH setup. They try and mimic the speaker rolloff or the entire frequency response of the cab right after the power soaking resistor. In other words they trash the highs with the shimmer before it hits the 2nd amp. Like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Of course those gizmos have their applications and maybe now they will address these new applications.

amp1-Power resistor- line out(designed properly without shimmer sucking) - effects- 2nd amp (dark)- cab.

[Good Guest]

I will question the alnico V vs alnico II magnet,alnico V or ceramic will do the job,im working with lindy fralin pickups(one of lindys techs im working with)to come up with a pickup that will end the story about alnico II magnets, and will achieve the van halen 1 sound,, we are working with alnico V and ceramic magnets,we are not even playing with alnico II magnets(waste of time for the van halen 1 sound, first album),ive been using the duncan 59 for a longtime and im very close to THAT sound using that pickup, but i feel we will(fralin pickups and myself)accomplish something amazing.STAY TUNE

It's already been done it's called the duncan custom (my fav for all things dutch)....ceramic + more output than a stock paf. The resitance reading is a hair away from the one in the 25k guitar not that it matters but 99% of pickups out there don't even come close. Whatever your designing make sure you have one of them (duncan customs) on hand to compare it too.

Hint: don't try to mimic the 800hz boost of the mxr 6 band in a pickup like all the other manufacturers do. That will be a big step and put you miles ahead,make sure you have one of them (mxr 6 band) on hand too. Just trying to help.

I take it big game hunting season is over..

[Mr. Beasty]

I will question the alnico V vs alnico II magnet,alnico V or ceramic will do the job,im working with lindy fralin pickups(one of lindys techs im working with)to come up with a pickup that will end the story about alnico II magnets, and will achieve the van halen 1 sound,, we are working with alnico V and ceramic magnets,we are not even playing with alnico II magnets(waste of time for the van halen 1 sound, first album),ive been using the duncan 59 for a longtime and im very close to THAT sound using that pickup, but i feel we will(fralin pickups and myself)accomplish something amazing.STAY TUNE

It's already been done it's called the duncan custom (my fav for all things dutch)...

... or the Bareknuckle VH-II humbucker. or it's high output variante, the Steven Steven signature.

... This I believe is where all the power soaks and attenuaters etc. fail in the EVH setup.

I agree, there is a little miracle happening in that box because with everything I tried, that set-up is never "plug n' play". Everything always comes out over bright and impossible to control.

[wjamflan]

Ok Robin, I found the article. I originally read it in GFTPM in November of 1988. The interviewer was John Stix.

JS: What is your amp setup?

EVH: Believe it or not, now I only use one amp. I'm back to doing what I used to do in the clubs. I use one Marshall head into these H&H power amps. I use five cabinets behind me, but they all sound identical. I take the speaker output and the whole amp out to power amps. But I still only use one amp that I like the sound of. It's kind of interesting that it's back to the way it used to be. I remember opening for Black Sabbath and Tony Iommi, who is a great guy, great player, would have eight Laney amp heads through one cabinet each. It was so overwhelmingly loud. It was great. I thought that's the way you're supposed to do it. So I did the same thing. I had six Marshall heads and packed them all in together and put each head into a separate cabinet. It was so loud I'd be totally numb by the end of the show, which back then was 40 minutes. I never understood how they did it. No wonder Ozzy never went in front of him. No wonder Dave stayed away from me, too, when I was playing that loud. It was pretty silly. We used to play so loud we would actually be louder than the PA. My guitar would barely ever come through the PA, because I would be so loud off the stage. The sound guys would be uptight saying, 'Nobody does this?' Bull. Everybody does it, or so I thought. The sound guy had no control whatsoever. I'm now in the process of building an amp with Jose Arredondo.

Van Halen toured with Sabbath (according to the dates I could find) 5/16/78 - 6/11/78 and again 8/14/78 - 12/3/78. Do you remember what Eddie was talking about? Did he scrap his club days setup (which is what you seem to be talking about????) during one of those treks?

I have a bunch of the boots from '78 and there does seem to be a huge change from the sound of the Pasdena Civic gig from October of 1977 when they were recording VHI. That show sounds alot like his tone on the record (to me), whereas the '78 shows sound more heavy metal/distorted (not as plexi-ish).

I'm sorry if I'm asking an ignorant question. I'm not a tech guy, so I apologize if I've confused some of the things you said. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this wealth of info and understand it. Thanks for your patience and for sharing.

Bill

[Mr. Beasty]

Did he scrap his club days setup (which is what you seem to be talking about????) during one of those treks?
Bill

I don't think that is what is being said. The club days were a single amp slaved into a second [master] amp and a few cabs. During the first tour [per Robin L], the slaved amp was plugged into three master heads each powering a single 4x12 [slaved head into three half stacks]. At times other heads would be daisy chained from the three masters to make more half stack set-ups. So, it is more of the same ... same thing but on a grander scale.

That is what we see in the Japan '78 pictures: two piles of heads daisy chained feeding a wall of cabinets.

[dirtycooter]

I know what I want for Christmas 2009

A Rockstah Plexi with a twist

It'll be a 50watt plexi with a variac and internal load with an internal line out inside to a 2nd full 100 watt power section with a second set of controls like the 2nd amp had and another line out to feed my wet dry rig setup too

It'll be the biggest and heaviest head ever made.


And I don't care if its 3 Zillion lbs and three stories high

Can you get all that in one box Mark???? How about a crate? Or a 10 space rack mount with two plexi faceplates on the front as well as a variac knob and meter and line out level knobs
I bet I coud come up with the chassis for it

Back to bein serious though-Robin, do you remember how the echoplexes were set or what settings he used?? Did they cascade into each other?? These were in front of the main amp input or in between the 1st and 2nd slave head??

[leadguy]

ROBIN L. Where are all your early tour photos? Surely you had a camera back then. All we have are people imagining that they are seeing load boxes come out of the woodwork and some nice photos from you showing the load box in action would solve everything.

[Froumy]

It'll be a 50watt plexi with a variac and internal load with an internal line out inside to a 2nd full 100 watt power section with a second set of controls like the 2nd amp had and another line out to feed my wet dry rig setup too

I think we're all thinking that . Although, I'd add a slaved/non slaved footswitch. Isn't that "sort of " the (patented) principle of guytron amps?


Keep it coming Robin. And Thanks!

[Mr. Beasty]

It'll be a 50watt plexi with a variac and internal load with an internal line out inside to a 2nd full 100 watt power section with a second set of controls like the 2nd amp had and another line out to feed my wet dry rig setup too

It'll be the biggest and heaviest head ever made.


And I don't care if its 3 Zillion lbs and three stories high

The first Marshall 100 watters were two 50watt OT on one chassis ... so perhaps you could build something like that in a Super Tremolo chassis, having one pre-amp, two PIs and cascade the OTs w/ a resistor in between [bolted on top of the chassis]. It would be heavy for shure.
BTW - I think Reinhold Bogner tried to built stuff like that in his old Caveman heads.

[dirtycooter]

ROBIN L. Where are all your early tour photos? Surely you had a camera back then. All we have are people imagining that they are seeing load boxes come out of the woodwork and some nice photos from you showing the load box in action would solve everything.

Well I don't want to get on that "prove you are who you say kick with Robin"-but Rockstah has already told us most of 99% of this stuff.
Whether you're real or not Robin you're helping make it more clearer all the more what took place and reinforcing this rig scheme in my mind and it just clicks now about WTF likely happened back then and all the funny mystery ain't so much mystery now about every single thing. And this slaving bit is exactly IT in my mind for the real VH tone of the old days.
I don't agree with the A2 magnet thing-Mark got it fine with the 59 and the Burstbucker A5-but all the rest makes complete sense and given the right amp spec for amp # 1 I bet the rest is easily conjured up with typical gear available today rather closely to what it was originally.

I mean in a few more months we'll have a perfect BLUEPRINT almost how to achieve this tone with no detours to get sidetracked on.
But just like I have 14 different delay/echos to use and pick from in my rig-I am always liking one one day and different one the next I am sure we all suffer from this.

But it seems as if it would have been a cumbersome SOB of a rig to haul around and tweak in all the time-a hassle to monitor and dial in all this stuff and maintain it. I mean if I was Ed I wouldn't like it being so much stuff to get me off you know.
Its easier to take one girl out on a date than 4 at the same time if you know what
I mean and maybe thats what he is chasing-one amp that can get that sound without all the hoopla going in and out and all around it-it would be a bear!
Kinda why I would vote to have it all in one box with bias test points for each power tube like the Randall RM sereis.
One piece all together with all the needed elements all in one box that just needs a cab in its ass and a guitar in its front-turn it on and go to town with the guns showin

We have a very good idea of the main amp circuit EVH had to gravitate towards, the type of load resistor thing it may have been, the line out slave is outta the bag, and the 2nd power amp is now getting a face too now and how it was used and played a role.

After hearing Marks clip and what he said he did and used I feel the mystery is or was now over-but I'd still like to see that actuall rig in person all together under lab lights in real life just for the satisfaction of Eye F'n it to death-yet I trust Mark was being square about what he was using.

Mark-can I have "eye sex" with your rig??? I promise I'll wear thick glasses and stop when she tells me no.

Even after all this stuff in the last few months posted on here its still hard to believe it IS acheviable though since it has been this long to get Eds tone so closely mocked or duped by anyone to the degree it has been done.

Aspen Pittman nailed it when he stated this about tone-"there is not a Marshall out there that cannot be made to sound like the record" or something to that effect-sorry if I didn't nail the quote exact if I mis-spoke any-but we knew Ed in fact got that sound onto a record and therefor it can be done again and again with out a doubt. But man-has it ever been a long time getting the pieces figured out

[beaulieu]

I have a DVD of Largo,Md. and Argentina from the 83 tour. I forget on which show but the guitar sound is alot different on Little Dreamer!I would guess that might be the 50 watt Plexi?? The songs at the Beg. of the show were VERY clean sounding with not much distortion at all and then Little Dreamer is a totally different sound!It was also mentioned about being loud in 84!! That is an understatement. I was 5 feet from the stage on Mike's side and its the only time in my life when my ears actually cut in and out a few times!!I really enjoyed this thread.It's alot of info all at once and not bits and pieces of speculation over time! The re-amping make alot of sense with the "power" Marshalls being set at 9:00. If anybodys ever heard a metal-faced Marshall 100 watter with the vol. on a solid -1-!! Id say 9:00 would be about 2 or 3 on the dial and that would be blistering loud but clean and with the Great sounding Plexi running thru them.....Makes me want to build a load box and try it with my 50 watt and my 100 watt plexi

[ROBIN L.]

I really hope this thread dosen't get locked up like the other cause a few are STILL arguing over a magnet in a pick-up.Seriously This is about Ed's 1978 touring rig. Not pickup mags. ENOUGH already! PLEASE.

My goal is to tell it all for those who are interested.
I am not here to convince anyone, everyone can make up their own mind and try it for themselves.
To those who don't belive me ... fine no problem, but don't ruin the thread for everyone else.
PLEASE, keep your questions to the 1978 rig on this thread.
Let's keep this thread clean and organized for those who really want to know how it was done.
Use the other thread Cary started for all other questions, I l'll do my best to answer them.
I'll describe the later tour setups in future threads.

[ROBIN L.]

Ok Robin, I found the article. I originally read it in GFTPM in November of 1988. The interviewer was John Stix.

JS: What is your amp setup?

EVH: Believe it or not, now I only use one amp. I'm back to doing what I used to do in the clubs. I use one Marshall head into these H&H power amps. I use five cabinets behind me, but they all sound identical. I take the speaker output and the whole amp out to power amps. But I still only use one amp that I like the sound of. It's kind of interesting that it's back to the way it used to be. I remember opening for Black Sabbath and Tony Iommi, who is a great guy, great player, would have eight Laney amp heads through one cabinet each. It was so overwhelmingly loud. It was great. I thought that's the way you're supposed to do it. So I did the same thing. I had six Marshall heads and packed them all in together and put each head into a separate cabinet. It was so loud I'd be totally numb by the end of the show, which back then was 40 minutes. I never understood how they did it. No wonder Ozzy never went in front of him. No wonder Dave stayed away from me, too, when I was playing that loud. It was pretty silly. We used to play so loud we would actually be louder than the PA. My guitar would barely ever come through the PA, because I would be so loud off the stage. The sound guys would be uptight saying, 'Nobody does this?' Bull. Everybody does it, or so I thought. The sound guy had no control whatsoever. I'm now in the process of building an amp with Jose Arredondo.

Van Halen toured with Sabbath (according to the dates I could find) 5/16/78 - 6/11/78 and again 8/14/78 - 12/3/78. Do you remember what Eddie was talking about? Did he scrap his club days setup (which is what you seem to be talking about????) during one of those treks?

I have a bunch of the boots from '78 and there does seem to be a huge change from the sound of the Pasdena Civic gig from October of 1977 when they were recording VHI. That show sounds alot like his tone on the record (to me), whereas the '78 shows sound more heavy metal/distorted (not as plexi-ish).

I'm sorry if I'm asking an ignorant question. I'm not a tech guy, so I apologize if I've confused some of the things you said. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this wealth of info and understand it. Thanks for your patience and for sharing.

Bill

Hey Bill,

For the late Civic shows, we were slaving through Vox and Marshall plexi amps.
For the first tour, Ed was slaving through metal pannel 100 watt Marshall superleads.
The superleads are more agressive and brighter, I assume that 's the main difference you're hearing.

As for the European leg of the tour opening for Sabbath, Tony Iommi was daisy-chaining at least 10 Laney heads !
Ed was using 3 to 6 heads for slaving, but that's very very loud onstage.
When we started using HH poweramps, you could manage the guitar 's stage volume and bring it down to reasonable levels (wich you coudn't do with the Marshall superleads).
Anyway, the guys from the band were all treble deaf by 1984 and they did just the opposite, it was so loud onstage a normal human would cry in pain.

[ROBIN L.]

I have a DVD of Largo,Md. and Argentina from the 83 tour. I forget on which show but the guitar sound is alot different on Little Dreamer!I would guess that might be the 50 watt Plexi?? The songs at the Beg. of the show were VERY clean sounding with not much distortion at all and then Little Dreamer is a totally different sound!It was also mentioned about being loud in 84!! That is an understatement. I was 5 feet from the stage on Mike's side and its the only time in my life when my ears actually cut in and out a few times!!I really enjoyed this thread.It's alot of info all at once and not bits and pieces of speculation over time! The re-amping make alot of sense with the "power" Marshalls being set at 9:00. If anybodys ever heard a metal-faced Marshall 100 watter with the vol. on a solid -1-!! Id say 9:00 would be about 2 or 3 on the dial and that would be blistering loud but clean and with the Great sounding Plexi running thru them.....Makes me want to build a load box and try it with my 50 watt and my 100 watt plexi

yes loud as hell

[ROBIN L.]

why the bass all the way up and everything else off?

because he's using the bright channel top left input on the superleads.