Super Distortion rocks! (MkII)

[nitro]

Ed would say he didnt like Dimarzio super distortion pickups but he used them,Ed would say he didnt like high output pickups but he used and designed them,so in the early days Ed said he didnt like distortion pedals.. must I go on...

[SteadyEddie]

I think people overestimate the amount of gain that was going on in VH1. Yeah, it had a lot of grind, but strip away the effects, both before the amp and added in the studio. Reverb gives the illusion of a smoother, more sustained sound. There's a lot of reverb on VH1.
But listen to the tone underneath that, the raw tracks. There wasn't THAT MUCH gain, at least compared to modern amps. Its been proven time and again that a guitar with a DSD into a stock plexi, (low filtering) CRANKED and Variac'ed, it totally gets you there.
Did Jose know a lot about pedals? He might have seen that Phase 90 or the MXR flanger and thought those were overdrive/distortion boxes. If he knew more about pedals he would have certainly been able to identify what he saw and that would have laid this issue to rest.
Yeah, there weren't a whole lot of people who had Eddie's tone back then, but who was really taking a Marshall, variac'ing it, cranking it to the max, running a strat with a humbucker, a phase and an echoplex? I can't think of anyone else. Eddie was TORTURING his amps back then and went through numerous transformers. What other artist was doing stuff like that?

[nitro]

Oh there is alot of crunch and gain,you can strip away the reverb and the rest of the crap and there is still alot of gain and crunch,as for Jose he did know about pedals,if you remember box #1 and box #2 in the early photos i still believe those units could have been something,plus there are no photos of van halen recording van halen 1.

[leadguy]

There is more then Eds pickup(mighty mite-Dimarzio super distortion)that achieved the van halen 1 sound,the dimarzio SD or the mighty mite would not be enough alone to achieve the distortion that Ed achieved on van halen 1,look at all the guitarist back then that used the dimarzio super distortion and the mighty mite pickup,none of them sounded like Ed,did Ed use those pickup,yes,but there is more to that,remember jose explaining to me,overdrive-distortion unit was used to achieve THAT sound I dont know way people dont take that into consideration,but people believe guys that worked on Eds gear in the 90s,

Spaceace,im not the only one that believes that(overdrive-distortion unit) many amp builders-techs do, people who know marshall plexis,and know them well,such as Doug Roccaforte,Ozzie at Blockhead(which he now works for 3-Monkey)and others I dont need to list all of them,they know that no stock cranked plexi can achieve that type of distortion, even using a variac or a high output pickups or a master volume wouldnt matter,pickups do help to a extent, People need to go back and listen to Van halen 1 and then compare it to some of the clips that are here and on other sites and hear what is missing.

There was a Big Muff in the 70s.

If anyone has used a Big Muff then they will know that that thing is a full on overdrive pedal that imparts it's own sort of thing onto any amp.

This is Ronnie Montrose using a Gibson LP Jnr through a Big Muff and a Bandmaster recorded with Ted Templeman and Donn Landee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUeuAnMNDhA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

If anyone has used a Big Muff and then listens especially for the Big Muff then I think they will probably recognize the Big Muff in the tone especially on the lower notes.

The Bandmaster has no real mid boosts in the circuit and the Big Muff overdrives the amp by upping the signal strength from the pickup and puts it's own clipping distortion sound in the mix as well.

Ed doesn't really need a pedal with something like a DiMarzio Super Distortion or Mighty Mite Distortion and his Marshall amps were mainly circuits which boosted the mids.

In fact, when Ed starts using the PAF is probably when a pedal might be used but he still doesn't use a pedal, what he does is he jacks up the PAF height for maximum output and just plays with a bit of a cleaner tone.

There is also the MXR EQ which Ed could use to boost the signal hitting the amp if he wanted to.

As for Box 1 and Box 2, the DOTG photos show Ed playing the Franky going straight into the phase on the pedalboard and then out from the pedalboard with the EQ and Box 1 disconnected (no Univox in the chain) and Box 2 is totally unconnected and not used at all, so Ed is not using Box 1 or Box 2 in these photos at all but there are other DOTG photos where Ed does use Box 1 for Eruption with the Univox.

The EQ connects directly to Box 1.

For Eruption, Ed is using the Franky (actually Franky is offstage just after playing Eruption) and it's going straight into the EQ and then into Box 1 and then out from the pedalboard and this makes sense when someone realizes that the Univox has a pretty low input impedance and will end up sucking all upper mids and upper content out of the tone so it really needs a buffer of some sort in front of it, something like a EQ.


My opinion of Box 1 and Box 2 is that Box 1 is a dual Univox footswitch and signal through/cut switch and Box 2 might be used to bypass the Box 1 switch with just a straight signal in/out that gets sent from Box 1 to Box 2 as Box 1 seems to have a short lead that can connect to Box 2 and Box 2 could be optionally used for daisy chaining with another amp so Box 1 and Box 2 could be sending the same signal to different amp chains if Ed felt like it but Box 2 is not used in the DOTG photos.

[dirtycooter]

[StuntDouble]

Yep, I feel yah. I couldn't even ask someone a question without it being sucked into this vortex of absurdity. Another thread hijacked so we can re-hash the same crap about a mysterious distortion/fuzz box. I'm not even saying there wasn't one...hell, I don't know, but can we at least stay on topic here. WTF

Nitro, Space had a great idea, start your own thread about this mysterious distortion pedal, and leave the comments there. Better yet, do some research and build your own pedal; talk to Goodgues and Mr. Crumb. They know a lot about effects.
Please stop hi-jacking everyone's thread; it's seriously un-cool. I'm not interested in a debate; I don't care, and I'm not going to reply. We all have our own oppinions, but as mature adults, it's more important to respect the oppinions of others, rather than seeing every topic as an opportunity to force yours on others.

[Ed Hunter]

back to topic, i really like the DSD for the VH I tone and getting extra drive from a SLP but prefer the JB for everything else

[azazael]

So in all honesty is it more likely he used the mighty mite copy than the Dimarzio?
He did talk about using Mighty Mite pickups though if I remember correctly.

You know if Mighty Mite had their heads screwed on they could re-release that pickup and make a fortune from all us curious EVH saps instead of having us stalk ebay for such things

[nitro]

Leadguy,"PAF close to the strings,Dimarzio Super distortion is all Ed needed with a crank plexi,MXR Eq",etc,etc is not going to achieve Eds van halen 1 sound alone,I find it interesting that people are still searching,experimenting,mods,changing this and changing that and they still cant achieve his first album tone,why,because they believe the BS,"Oh Ed never used a overdrive-distortion pedal so we wont go down(try) that path",people need to do the opposite of how Ed explained things.There were many pedals(overdrive-distortion) in the 70s ,Ed never used anything(equipment) stock plus he didnt have much money back then,so if people what to believe the BS thats fine.

[rgorke]

So, I picked up a Ceramic 8 magnet to put back into my DSD that I had put an A5 in. Frankly, I didn't hear THAT much of a difference. The bass was tighter but it wasn't like the A5 made it go to mush. It was more of a refinement of the underlying tone that was already present rather than a wholesale change in tone.

The thing that gets me about the DSD that is different than say the EVH Franky pickup or even a '59 is that the DSD seems more articulate and clear and punchy. I am going to try and put this into words - the DSD is more immediate or efficient or quick in "processing" the notes. The '59 I had in there prior almost had a slower response time. All of this is in the femto seconds. I am not doing a good job of describing what I am hearing but bottom line, it sounds great.

[Tone Slinger]

I think Ed used the zebra coiled Mighty Mite that was in the ALL black Franky on the first album. If I'm not mistaken ,all the research by us die hards have turned up NO photo's of the stripes until the 12/31/77 gig. Photo's prior and right up to the first albums recording (Michael Anthony has said they went into the studio in Sept. of '77) show Ed with the all black Franky and a zebra coiled Mighty Mite.

As Leadguy and Strat78 have mentioned previously, the catalog shows two different Mighty Mite types. Same magnet, etc, except different outputs. One being in the 9 k and one 14 k. Strat78 actually has a zebra coiled Mighty Mite that reads over 13 k, even though in the MM catalog, they show the zebra coil model as being the 'vintage' 9 k.

The Mighty Mites were OBVIOUSLY very good and accurate 'copies' of the Dimarzio Super Distortion. I mean, WHO else was putting in the hex screw pole pieces back then ?

I think Ed may have used the Mighty Mite stuff a bit more than the Dimarzio because Wayne Charvel stocked all that stuff at better prices than Ed could get the Dimarzio for.


Not to hijack again, but I agree with Dirtycooter concerning Vintage trems Vs. Floyds, and I think SteadyEddie is right about Jose possibly thinking the phase 90 was a boost or something. Eddie used it on almost every solo on that first album. Plus words and memory get very cloudy over time. That is for sure.

[leadguy]

I've got nothing against pedals, I've used loads of them.

I just can't find any evidence that Ed used them in 1977/1978 that's all.

Have you heard Ralles DSD into his Plexi circuit lately http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=35147" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is not lacking in gain and hair but I knew this back in the late 70s when I had a Fender 14k ceramic pickup designed by none other than Seth Lover and that pickup could push anything over the top including my stock Plexi at that time.
I've also pushed PAF wound Super 70s into a Plexi in the 70s sometimes with a Ibanez EQ which had a boost for Ed's 1978 gain levels.

Shit, by the early 80s, I was playing with way more gain than Ed, I had the Fender 14k ceramic pickup into a Tubescreamer and into a 2204 cascaded Marshall.

And I don't hero worship Ed and never did, Ritchie Blackmore is and was my main deal for Rock, Jazz is another matter which I also play.
I think Ed's very good but so were other guitarists.

Ed's gain levels are no mystery to me and I don't treat it as a never ending holy grail quest where I don't want to face the reality because the quest might end.

[nitro]

Ive listened to ralles clip and they sound good but there seems to be this lossless-softness-holding back of his sound if you know what I mean,Eds first album sound is more in your face-push-strength thing going on.

[leadguy]

Yes it's very edgy and bright but full.

Ralle has not got Ed's tubes or the variac as far as I know so that will make some difference and VH1 might even be a 50 watt.

It's also very hard to get someones tone and especially a recorded tone exactly.

I still can't get Ritchie Blackmores exact tone when I sometimes have a go at it.

There is still something missing like Ritchie himself for example.

Getting in the ballpark of someones tone is not that hard but getting the tone exactly is very hard IMO.

[azazael]

Ive listened to ralles clip and they sound good but there seems to be this lossless-softness-holding back of his sound if you know what I mean,Eds first album sound is more in your face-push-strength thing going on.

You have to remember VH1 is a properly recorded guitar tone and it's been mixed/mastered.

There will be post processing on it and especially compression to bring it out.

There is a strong possibility that what you hear on VH1 is probably nothing really like what was coming out of that 4x12.