The DSD/Mighty Mite on VH1 theory

[Tone Slinger]

I have been here some time now, and have seen topics/theories visited and revisited, numerous times. A recent Pete Thorn clip posted here (maybe not so 'recent', but it was the first time I heard it) really made me try my DSD again. I , like alot of people, was turned on to the 'EVH/DSD' thing by the Late, Great Rockstah (rip MarK). Albeit a Mighty Mite 'DSD clone' or not, the pu Ed used in '77 (VH1) in his Franky was obviously different to what he used on the '78 world tour (I believe the '78 Duncan is probably very similar to this 1978 pu Ed used for the next couple of yrs.)

That ceramic sizzle, that is very 'presency' and crisp, combined with push and output, is, imo, the MAIN difference between VH1 and Vh2, though a different room was used at Sunset sound on VH2.
Its funny, but the tone signature of a DSD is VERY evident, no matter the amp your playing, or the guitar its (DSD) in. Not to offend, but only to disagree with those who think Ed was using a low output paf, but imo, there is no way a 8k to 10k A2 or A5 is gonna sound like the '77 boots or VH1. The '78 world tour and VH2 DO have a hot paf (9kish a2 type tone) to it, but the over the top VH1 tone was obviously either a DSD or the Mighty Mite clone of one.
Oh yeah, a particuarly NICE sounding 12xxx 100 watter was used, imo, on VH1. Just variaced and cranked up. Obviously the EP-3 preamp was pushing a hair, as well as 'possibly' a MXR 6 band.

[YMI5150?]

Good thread to post my experiences lately.

I agree 100% with the dsd. It, along with a tight NFB and proper B string tuning nails RWTD. The NFB is the other big difference between the first and subsequent albums. It helps contribute to the lack of bottom end.
You can achieve ice cream man and little dreamer w a hot A5 along w tight NFB. Pushed with a 6 band for Eruption.
After that tour though, the DSD goes away for VH.

[dirtycooter]

Well

I HAVE TO AGREE BIGGER N SHIT!

I stated this about Thorns SL68 vid that it overwhelmingly nails the fuckin piss out of VH1, and his switch to the PAF guitar clearly shows the VH2 tone. Same amp, same settings, same shit-just two different pickups. BAM!!
It was more evident than a piss hard on in the morning in your underwear.

The DSD has over TWO TIMES THE ACTUAL MEASURED OUTPUT of a typical PAF. Check out the output chart on dimarzios site. NOT the dc resistance. The resistance means jack shit and that gets thrown around all day long. That measurement doesn't mean anything. Again-look at The OUTPUT measurement. Its insane.
There is also the vid with dimarzio and Paul Gilbert where dimarzio and him are havin dinner discussing pickups.
Dimarzio states plain as day on that youtube vid he set out to make super driving paf tone pickup when he made it.
Paf toned??? Not quite, but it is basically voiced and eq'd alot like the a5 paf copy I like that I have-its just way more powerful hot.
After pete did the sl68 vid I absolutely don't get why anyone would not see this. I heard it and jumped back in my chair and said-THATS IT RIGHT THERE

I remember Mark A scoffin at my comment about my ceramic gibson 498t or whatever the hell gibson calls those pickups and he expressed his disgust for it. My point was it was a higher output with that bright clear detail on the top even when you rolled the volume down-like Eds did.
Later in an email he told me that ceramic indeed kept the chime on top with higher output pickups and that he was flyin a DSD into his amps and lovin it. So must be he pondered what I had pointed out and began lookin. I woulda never tried a DSD-the damn name just sounds fricken napoleon dynamite generic for one and waz about as attractive asthe lame ass solid state labels they used to proudly adorn shitty electronics with from the 70's. But we discussed the the overtones and maniacle balls out aound of the randy rhoads tribute record-very similar to vh1 in many ways if you clean the shit outta your ears and listen to arandy used a dsd and seemed to get all kinds of balls and was uzing nmv marshalls
Mark deserves alot of credit in my opinion-he is the first dude to leak out it might just be better sounding than you think. Meanwhile we were all stuck in a totally different direction on the pickup issue.
Yeah, the tons of paf copies and the super 70 and all that shit got close but we all knew and asked the same question
"Where in the hell is the gain?"
A puss don't bang it self and tubes don't either. We all (most anyway) asked how to get more drive without a boost box.
After having a 10band jammed in front it was better but not it. When I tried the dsd i was like-this thing drives like a 10band but still does it all and better minus the damn gain hiss you would get with an eq.
I am not so mystified how ed got that gain anymore. I have one guitar with a sd59 that works great with gainy amps and the weak assed gain amps I use the other guitar that packs some power with a dsd. That solves the problem right away. Night and day-balls then no balls. Its simple.
however........... people always ask wth ed never used vh1 tone again???
As pete demonstrated-potted or not its a feedinback s.o.b. and if not careful starts whistlin and screamin like a jipped whore.
So my conclusion is this
Ed went through the same shit we covered. Damn that eq makes my marshall mad as hell but I like this paf pickup but also I can get a paf sound thats similar and ditch the eq and use this damn dsd instead. I think he was torn just like we were and was goin back and forth between a paf+10band and a dsd. Thats maybe why we see the eq on the ground in front of him but its never being ised in those pics. Totally makes perfect sense.
Note also you have a hell of a time gettin feedback with a dsd thats controllable. Like say the intro to everybody wants some.
You don't hear any feedback tricks and shit on vh1. Its only on the records after vh1 that have obviously less drive and crazy gain. So thats another clue. The torn decision to use a paf or the dsd is what I think lead ed to go after custom wound pickups from seymour. He wanted to meld the two together somehow someway.
Its about the only logiacal way I can see it all making sense for once.

[dirtycooter]

The sh5 pickup I think is the child of this love affair. I think it was a dsd based copy but an attempt to refine it further. Maybe make it more liveable and useable. Maybe its the dsd on the record and by the tour it was different slugs in a clone copy attempt. We will never know unless Ed clarifies for sure the photos and what was goin on at what time frame.
I think it will come about......... shit we finally got amp specs narrowed down. I think this is the last part of the puzzle. Juggling pickups and amps together was difficult. Now we have thee amp pretty down. Just needs the proper pickup now only.
Not such a blind attempt anymore-one eye is workin finally.
Dave gave the gospel-one amp was used for all those records. Now its matchin pickups to each record. And one amp indeed can do it-Thorn showed us.
I don't believe in fairy farts and dust for tone anymore, or fluke broken pickup bullshit. Come on.... we're smarter than that.
We all know the gear world couldn't sell shit if we all could just get what we wanted the first time we went shopping. Its confusing for a reason cause it makes alot of money. Now I see the gear world has lost its magic amoke screen thanks to forums like this. There is so much cooler shit out now than there was 7-10 years ago. Stuff that sounds good finally again.

[Blix]

Yeah, couldn't agree more. It was a DUH! moment when I got my DSD last year.

[EJSLPlexi]

I got a old dimarzio super distortion from ebay just early yesterday after reading here that many thought the VH I tone was this type of pu.
i had one of the latter year super distortions(2001-2004?) and that particular one does not sound like VH I but this older one does???
It appears that over the years dimarzio has changed this model significantly goin by new newer one and the old 70's one i just got from ebay.
A guy named "dirty cooter" pointed out a video clip i had never seen before by a guy named peter thorn and on it towards the end this guy absolutely NAILS that VH I tone
There is no denying that EVH used this type of pickup with his rig.
after watching peter thorns demon of a marshall plexi maxed out and a strat loaded with a super it is 100% VH I tone.

[EJSLPlexi]

Does anyone know what year these dimarzio changed so much??
when did they become more of a "metal" pickup?
this old 70's one i have is real PAF sounding but obviously a lot hotter and my newer one has that trademark METAL sound? same guitar and amp settings were used

[EJSLPlexi]

Good thread to post my experiences lately.

I agree 100% with the dsd. It, along with a tight NFB and proper B string tuning nails RWTD. The NFB is the other big difference between the first and subsequent albums. It helps contribute to the lack of bottom end.
You can achieve ice cream man and little dreamer w a hot A5 along w tight NFB. Pushed with a 6 band for Eruption.
After that tour though, the DSD goes away for VH.

NFB?

[julkke]

DSD's didn't change, except they started potting them which is needed anyway. New ones sound just as good as the oldies. NFB= negative feedback

Pickup height change is probably what you are hearing between the dsds, mess with that a bit.

[fivecoyote]

Agree with all of this. Am on the hunt for a pickup with DSD-like properties that doesn't have that "tinniness" over the top of it, at least how it sounds to my ears. Maybe the solution is a 300K pot, have not tried that yet, but in the meantime looking for pickups along the lines of the DiMarzio EVH/Music Man. Seems like pickup height for these type pickups may bring out more subtleties than in other pickups.

[EJSLPlexi]

DSD's didn't change, except they started potting them which is needed anyway. New ones sound just as good as the oldies. NFB= negative feedback

Pickup height change is probably what you are hearing between the dsds, mess with that a bit.

well it would have t be potted, cause evh potted all his,he said they melted if if left them in the wax too long
as far as not changing i dont know man, my newer one sounds real heavy metal and my old one sounds like a PAF but hotter?
the new one has that metallica type tone but this old one would need a OD or fuzz box to do metallica

[EJSLPlexi]

t in the meantime looking for pickups along the lines of the DiMarzio EVH/Music Man.

A air zone/ air norton set used with a 1 meg pot
I have a old EBMM EVH signature and wanted those pickups for my homemade strat
the air zone/air norton are it as long as you use a 1 meg volume pot and not tone control

[julkke]

Well all I know really is that Rockstah always used a new DSD and he sounded pretty brovn to me.

[rgorke]

As pointed out, the DSD is very dependent on how close it is to the strings. It can easily turn to mush and be too heavy metalish.

I have found that the DSDs are quite different from the early ones to the newer models. Can't say what it is. The DSD you want has a braided lead wire and square legs, not the pointy / triangular ones.

Pete also has a clip doing ATBL and it is also dead nuts VH1.

[stef]

Agree with all of this. Am on the hunt for a pickup with DSD-like properties that doesn't have that "tinniness" over the top of it, ...

have you tried the sh5 duncan?